Oil leak again

What if I ran some compressed air into the dipstick hole (after plugging the crankcase vent) Not a lot of air, just enough to force some oil out of where it's leaking.
 
robsad said:
What if I ran some compressed air into the dipstick hole
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Honestly I sort of doubt that will get you what you are looking for. The oil leak is likely from some sort of passage way that the pressurized oil travels through. And compressed air in the crankcase won't necessarily provide that.

Removing the distributor isn't difficult. And driving the oil pump through that hole (with the tool described in the link above) is easy to do. That gives full pressure to the oil system and its internal passageways. In that link, the tool I made (toward the end of the thread) allows the distributor to remain in place but requires the timing belt to come off. Unless you already have the belt off (as I did) that isn't the best method. The tool described by others that has a drive from a old distributor/oil pump gear is much better. But many of us may not have a old gear to make one from. However I'm sure we can loan one to you (I'll have to see if I ended up making one or not...I intended to).

Oil pump priming tool.jpg
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robsad said:
What if I ran some compressed air into the dipstick hole (after plugging the crankcase vent) Not a lot of air, just enough to force some oil out of where it's leaking.
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I’d be worried that you would blow out a main seal before you built enough pressure to find your leak. It’s not easy to force oil through the oil pump when it’s not turning, and the oil galleries downstream of the pump are under much more pressure than the crankcase ever sees.

If you aren’t able to rig up some way of spinning the auxshaft to turn the pump, you might try applying pressure through the port for the oil pressure idiot light... sort of like using a pressure bleeder to force brake fluid into the brake lines, except working with 50+ psi of pressure.

But really.... rigging something up to do that is probably just as much work as taking the timing belt off so you can spin the auxshaft with a power drill.
 
Bob, turns out I did make a drive for the oil pump (been awhile so wasn't sure). I welded a modified drive gear onto a bolt with a 14mm head so it can be used with a socket and extension, driven by a electric drill. This makes it rather compact and easy to mail if you want to borrow it.

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You could also take a drill with a rubber wheel, take off the timing belt and spin the auxiliary shaft with the drill. That would pressurize the oil galleys.
 
Peter Bruecken said:
spin the auxiliary shaft with the drill
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The problem I had with that method was there wasn't enough room to get a drill on the aux shaft with the engine in the car. Plus removing the timing belt, if you otherwise don't need to, is a bit of a pain. That was the same with the first tool I made, to drive the distributor shaft from the rotor end. At that time the T-belt was already off so it was o.k.. But later I wanted the other style tool because removing the distributor seems easier than the timing belt.
 
I used a drill with a socket adapter to spin the auxiliary shaft to prime my engine on the bench. I wonder if you remove the RR wheel and shield, if you could get a clear shot at the auxiliary pulley or at least get to it with a universal joint.
 
EricH said:
...... you might try applying pressure through the port for the oil pressure idiot light... sort of like using a pressure bleeder to force brake fluid into the brake lines, except working with 50+ psi of pressure......
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This sounds like a good idea :)

A rubber tipped blow gun nozzle should do it, like this one. Or, f you prefer to use a threaded adapter of some sort screwed into the block, according to MWB's listing for the oil pressure port doubler that they sell, the port threads are M14 x 1.5

Agree with EricH, probably best to adjust your air pressure down from standard shop air ( 90+ PSI) to something more like oil pressure, 25-50 PSI.
 
Jeff,
When I pulled the main rear seal off, I won't say that it fell out but it needed very little pull - it came out easily which tells me that there wasn't much of a seal between the seal and the alum carrier. Next will be to remove the oil galley plug. I'm determined to use a sealant when I install the new parts but I can't decide what product to use. There's a bewildering amount of products out there with all kinds of claims and
opinions as to their effectivness. My first thought was Hylomar but An expert mentioned that under pressure there's a good chance that whatever you put on those joints will be blown out under heat and pressure. I'm hoping that the new silicone seal from MWB will be a better fit. I've researched ad nauseum and am still not sure what to use. Help !
 
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Sounds like the aluminum rear cover/seal housing might be a bit worn on its bore. So a good sealant would be called for I think.

I hear you about deciding what to use for a sealant. I've also been doing some reading to see what the latest products are for these applications. Basically I've somewhat narrowed things down. The most common 'go to' seems to be Permatex gasket sealant. Although Permatex makes lots of sealants, their #1 or #2 "Form-A-Gasket" sealants are most often referenced. A more modern solution is adhesives made to install things like bearing races into bores or gears on to shafts, etc. I'll have to look up the specific product again (I have the spec sheets), but my concern is these are rather perminate. So future servicing will be quite difficult (however hopefully that will never be a concern). But they would offer the greatest security. I really do not like any silicone sealants, but they are a third choice...just not for me. And I read about their elastic quality actually being a detriment for this particular use. The last one I keep seeing is the old "Indian Head" shellac. It really sticks and may actually be a decent choice, but it is also a mess to remove in the future (however it is removable though). I will probably use the Permatex #1 as it seems to be the recommendation of most reputable makers of freeze plugs and seals. I will be interested to hear what you decide.

On a related note, I've found the 16mm welch flat-disk plugs for the oil galleys are available at your local NAPA store. Ask for # SEP 3811136, they are only $.59 each and plated steel like the originals. There are a total of four on the engine, but a couple of them are not easily accessible unless you strip the block. The most common removal procedure is to drill a hole in it and use a drift to pry it out at an angle. For me that was easy because my block is stripped down and will be cleaned before reassembly. But in your case I'd be a little concerned about getting drill filings inside the bore. Although it would not be too hard to clean it out. Just use caution, and maybe magnetize the drill bit first (works fairly well to retain the metal bits). Are you doing this with the engine out of the car?

Also keep in mind if you ever need to replace the three 40mm cup type freeze plugs in the block, they are also readily available locally; either in steel (like the originals) Dorman part # 555-095 ($.89 at O'reilly Auto Parts), or in brass # SEP 3819005 ($3.39 at NAPA).
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Sounds like the aluminum rear cover/seal housing might be a bit worn on its bore. So a good sealant would be called for I think.

I hear you about deciding what to use for a sealant. I've also been doing some reading to see what the latest products are for these applications. Basically I've somewhat narrowed things down. The most common 'go to' seems to be Permatex gasket sealant. Although Permatex makes lots of sealants, their #1 or #2 "Form-A-Gasket" sealants are most often referenced. A more modern solution is adhesives made to install things like bearing races into bores or gears on to shafts, etc. I'll have to look up the specific product again (I have the spec sheets), but my concern is these are rather perminate. So future servicing will be quite difficult (however hopefully that will never be a concern). But they would offer the greatest security. I really do not like any silicone sealants, but they are a third choice...just not for me. And I read about their elastic quality actually being a detriment for this particular use. The last one I keep seeing is the old "Indian Head" shellac. It really sticks and may actually be a decent choice, but it is also a mess to remove in the future (however it is removable though). I will probably use the Permatex #1 as it seems to be the recommendation of most reputable makers of freeze plugs and seals. I will be interested to hear what you decide.

On a related note, I've found the 16mm welch flat-disk plugs for the oil galleys are available at your local NAPA store. Ask for # SEP 3811136, they are only $.59 each and plated steel like the originals. There are a total of four on the engine, but a couple of them are not easily accessible unless you strip the block. The most common removal procedure is to drill a hole in it and use a drift to pry it out at an angle. For me that was easy because my block is stripped down and will be cleaned before reassembly. But in your case I'd be a little concerned about getting drill filings inside the bore. Although it would not be too hard to clean it out. Just use caution, and maybe magnetize the drill bit first (works fairly well to retain the metal bits). Are you doing this with the engine out of the car?

Also keep in mind if you ever need to replace the three 40mm cup type freeze plugs in the block, they are also readily available locally; either in steel (like the originals) Dorman part # 555-095 ($.89 at O'reilly Auto Parts), or in brass # SEP 3819005 ($3.39 at NAPA).
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Jeff,
Thanks for all the info. My engine is still in the car but there is plenty of room to work. I did read that the Indian head shellac might not hold up in a high temp situation. My 1500 has the cup type galley plugs and they are 13 mm not 16. A 16 mm would never fit in this galley hole. I did replace the freeze plugs and used Permatex High Tack on the water jacket covers and there is not a drop of leakage in that area. Let me know the name of the more permanent type you mentioned.
 
It occured to me your block may have the 13mm cup type oil galley plugs instead of the 16mm flat disk welch ones. In the picture SteveC posted earlier you can see that block has the smaller cup type. So check which type you need before getting replacements. I have not looked for the 13mm cup ones from local sources but I'll bet they are available.
 
Ha, looks like we posted the same thing at the same time.
I'll look for the other sealant and report back.
 
You might consider getting a new seal carrier as it may be distorted. I wouldn’t expect a high volume production standard part to vary much and your loose fit up suggests that the part was not properly retained by the carrier. Just a thought.
 
robsad said:
Jeff et al,
Just took off the crossmember and lower trans shield, cleaned the leaking area again and started the engine (with UV dye still in). It's not any of the senders or top end gaskets. Its leaking right where the bell housing meets the engine on the lower left side right by the corner of the oilpan. If its the rear main seal or gallery plug wouldn't it be puddling inside the bellhousing and then leaking out of more than one specific place ? I snugged the oilpan bolts where needed so I'm almost positive it's not the oilpan gasket. Also there is no oil anywhere on the flywheel. I would think if it was the rear main seal there would be oil on the side of the flywheel that faces the block but there is no sign of it. And this UV dye REALLY shows up florescent yellow/green so that side of the flywheel is clean and dry. I guess the only thing to do now is pull the trans and really see what's going on. I almost hope that I find something - this will be the second time I've pulled the trans this summer. I pray this will be the last time I have to do this.

Bob
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Good day
What is this UV dye you speak of, where can I get it? How hard is it to use?

Thanks

Stoney
 
Stoney, it is pretty basic stuff. It's available for all sorts of applications; A/C systems, cooling systems, engine and trans fluids, etc. There are some that are universal and can be used almost anywhere. A very small amount is added to the oil (in this case), allowed to mix by running for awhile, then with a blacklight it will show up in the oil leak.
Here is one example:
16525.png

You can get it at most auto parts stores, Amazon, eBay, A/C repair shops, etc. Not too expensive, usually in a kit that includes the dye, light, and a pair of jazzy goggles that are supposed to help see it.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Stoney, it is pretty basic stuff. It's available for all sorts of applications; A/C systems, cooling systems, engine and trans fluids, etc. There are some that are universal and can be used almost anywhere. A very small amount is added to the oil (in this case), allowed to mix by running for awhile, then with a blacklight it will show up in the oil leak.
Here is one example:
View attachment 25332
You can get it at most auto parts stores, Amazon, eBay, A/C repair shops, etc. Not too expensive, usually in a kit that includes the dye, light, and a pair of jazzy goggles that are supposed to help see it.
Click to expand...
Dr.Jeff said:
Stoney, it is pretty basic stuff. It's available for all sorts of applications; A/C systems, cooling systems, engine and trans fluids, etc. There are some that are universal and can be used almost anywhere. A very small amount is added to the oil (in this case), allowed to mix by running for awhile, then with a blacklight it will show up in the oil leak.
Here is one example:
View attachment 25332
You can get it at most auto parts stores, Amazon, eBay, A/C repair shops, etc. Not too expensive, usually in a kit that includes the dye, light, and a pair of jazzy goggles that are supposed to help see it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, really looking forward to the JAZZY goggles

Stoney
 
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