Project midnight sunrise

K

Kendall

True Classic
Hello everyone. I will be picking up (towing) a 1975 x this weekend that has not been driven for roughly 10 years. If you have been watching ebay lately you might have seen it and the dorky title might make sense.

I wanted to get your guys' opinion on what I need to change to get it safe. This is my list so far:

Brake hoses
Brake fluid
Timing belt and water pump
Alternator/water pump belt
Radiator and heater hoses
Coolant drain and bleed
Oil and filter
Carb clean and rebuild and balance
Check timing
Tires
Headlights, popup not working
Wires by front radiator (something was hanging loose)
Drain fuel tank
Fuel lines, if bad (looked newer)
Engine mounts
Battery

I don't have any reason to suspect the head gasket should be bad. The engine would crank and run but you had to gas it to keep it going. I'm sure the idle circuits are clogged up. There was no smoke or anything coming from the exhaust while it ran briefly. Also it seemed very dry all over, so I don't suspect any issues with seals, gaskets, or coolant leaks. The coolant tubes running to the front had been replaced within the recent life of the car.

Is there anything else I missed? I think I have most rubber parts on my list. Or is there anything special about reviving an x it would be good to know?

Thanks for any feedback. I'm looking forward to driving this thing!
 
A car that's been sitting for 10years, even if it seems dry / clean is likely to need some hydraulics repaired.

Brake caliper seal kits for front / rear
brake master cylinder / or give thought to stainless steel sleeving the old cylinder and rebuilding
clutch master cylinder / ditto
clutch slave cylinder
clutch slave cylinder hose
brake fluid feed line between the reservoir and master cylinder

Possibly wheel bearings may become noisy quite quickly during use due to sitting in one place for 10 years.

same with coooling system, the wrong additive and sitting for an extended time can be the cause of serious white powdery build up... but that's wosrt case scenario, and you'll figure that when you drain the system, and take main coolant hoses off to check them.

SteveC
 
Kendall said:
Hello everyone. I will be picking up (towing) a 1975 x this weekend that has not been driven for roughly 10 years. If you have been watching ebay lately you might have seen it and the dorky title might make sense.

I wanted to get your guys' opinion on what I need to change to get it safe. This is my list so far:

Brake hoses
Brake fluid
Timing belt and water pump
Alternator/water pump belt
Radiator and heater hoses
Coolant drain and bleed
Oil and filter
Carb clean and rebuild and balance
Check timing
Tires
Headlights, popup not working
Wires by front radiator (something was hanging loose)
Drain fuel tank
Fuel lines, if bad (looked newer)
Engine mounts
Battery

I don't have any reason to suspect the head gasket should be bad. The engine would crank and run but you had to gas it to keep it going. I'm sure the idle circuits are clogged up. There was no smoke or anything coming from the exhaust while it ran briefly. Also it seemed very dry all over, so I don't suspect any issues with seals, gaskets, or coolant leaks. The coolant tubes running to the front had been replaced within the recent life of the car.

Is there anything else I missed? I think I have most rubber parts on my list. Or is there anything special about reviving an x it would be good to know?

Thanks for any feedback. I'm looking forward to driving this thing!
Click to expand...

A good list. I wouldn’t replace the water pump until it is warranted, it will let you know either by the howl or dripping, it is not interdependent to changing the timing belt. I tend to prefer OE parts or older replacement parts for some things and the water pump is one of them.

If you don’t plan on replacing all the coolant lines, at least replace all the clamps with the ‘fuel injection or silicone hose‘ type clamps. On my first X one let go and it overheated. Most owners put on the traditional US band clamps with the slots which eventually ruin the hoses. Gates makes good ones that can be had in bulk from Rock Auto.

Personally I would replace all the fuel hoses regardless, you don’t know what was used and modern fuels are brutal on hoses. It doesn’t take much to start a fire.

Plan on pads and rotors unless obviously new, get good pads not the crap from Autozone etc. While doing the R&R on the brakes pay attention to the cleaning up of the carriers, slipper pads and calipers where they slide over each other.. Assemble with ceramic based grease on the sliding surfaces. Doing this will ensure you have brakes which don’t pull or overheat because the caliper won’t move back.

Transmission oil should be changed, Redline MTL is the preferred product now of days.

The OE radiator is an excellent part, if it is in decent shape I would continue to run it. I would remove it and clean it out however with vinegar or similar. You can get much stronger industrial vinegar by the way which can be more effective but one does need to be careful with it.

Sounds like you will need a new thermostatic switch for the radiator and possibly surgery on the wire connectors depending on what butchery has ensued under there.

Replace engine mounts if needed otherwise I would leave them alone. It is pretty obvious when they are perished aside from the snail mount on the timing belt end, it is so encapsulated it is hard to see the rubber fatigue.

You have the right attitude, I would read through Matt’s list in the BOX section for new owners. You are on his suggested trail.

Good luck and congrats, I haven‘t been watching eBay so pics would be good :)
 
Congrats on the new project. It sounds like you have a pretty realistic idea of what you should expect to encounter but you never know until you do a good inspection. Most often when I've attempted to haul home such a project I had to deal with sticky brakes. Removing the brake pads can be the simplest way to get the car rolling but if the brakes aren't stuck at least you should be able to get it home where you can do an inspection to see how far you have to go to make it safe.
Do you know if the car was parked because of a mechanical issue?
Replacing the hoses and belts and doing a full fluid flush is a good idea but don't forget the timing belt idler (while you're in there).
I'm guessing that the fuel tank was dry or drained before you attempted to start the car (gas doesn't age as well as wine). You should be prepared to refurbish or replace the fuel tank, it probably needs a good inspection at minimum. They can deteriorate quickly when sitting. Sounds like you are correct, the carbs idle passages may be plugged so you'll want to clean the carb(s) out too. You don't have to worry about balancing anything unless you have more than one carb.
Once you get the a car safe to drive, drive it. See what problems you have, then get to work making it reliable.
Enjoy!
 
Not sure if it's already implied in "drain fuel tank", but after getting rid of the old fuel I'd check the condition inside the tank. Mine was totally rust-coated after sitting for ~10 years. The fuel in the bottom was brown... 😲

EDIT: I see @MikeHynes beat me to it! Also re: stuck brakes, you might be able to unstick them by pressing down firmly all the way on the pedal, then releasing. Mine were stuck as well, but a couple of times doing that unstuck 'em.

And I second the request for photos.
 
Kendall said:
Or is there anything special about reviving an x it would be good to know?
Click to expand...

Matt Brannon made a comprehensive post on this issue, based on a ton of experience:

New To You X1/9 To-Do List - Do it now or do it later

I've had this conversation with a couple of new and prospective new owners lately, so I figured I'd start a thread about it. So you're considering the purchase of an X1/9. Let's say it's a 1980 1500, 5-Spd... The ad and the seller says "Runs and Drives Great!" However, starting in a 65...
xwebforums.com
 
So, here is my thoughts. Dropping the engine out of the car is not that tough. Leave the transmission attached and drop it straight out. Even with rudimentary tools, you can do this in less than a couple of hours. Now that it is out of the car, it will give you space to replace hoses, cables, and inspect other items which would be very difficult to do.

Also, the cost of a full gasket kit for the car is not that much. I personally would remove the head which would allow you to inspect the bores. It would suck for you to put in a bunch of money and effort only to find out once warmed up you have bad blowby or some other issue. Don't let it scare you, working on these cars are pretty straight forward. This way, you know the gaskets are all new, and you should be good to go. At this point, I would also replace the bearings to be safe, and while at it, check the ring gap. I know this is quickly sounding like a full rebuild, but given how it sounds, you may find the bearings to be just fine, ring gap in spec, and you will end up with a motor which has all new gaskets and the chances of failure due to old materials will be eliminated.

Being in the Los Angeles area, there are others on this forum who would probably come over and lend a hand as well.

You should be able to drop the motor, tear it down, inspect (assuming there are no issues) and reassemble it in a weekend. With some friends with experience, maybe even a single day.

Just my thoughts.
 
Wait, it took 7 posts before someone said rebuild everything? :p

Lots of excellent suggestions listed. The more you do now, the less you will do later. But you will do all of it eventually either way. ;)
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Wait, it took 7 posts before someone said rebuild everything? :p

Lots of excellent suggestions listed. The more you do now, the less you will do later. But you will do all of it eventually either way. ;)
Click to expand...

At least I didn't say "put an LS in it! " hahaha.... I would say in about 6 months, I am going to need to remove my Uno Turbo from the X. I should probably do a video of the removal, how to do it, then another on tearing the engine down and what is involved. It really is not that difficult.

However, Kendall, do what you feel you are comfortable with doing.
 
fastx19 said:
At least I didn't say "put an LS in it! " hahaha.... I would say in about 6 months, I am going to need to remove my Uno Turbo from the X. I should probably do a video of the removal, how to do it, then another on tearing the engine down and what is involved. It really is not that difficult.

However, Kendall, do what you feel you are comfortable with doing.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, I completely agree with all of your suggestions. I was only adding a bit of (poor) humor. ;)
 
Wow everyone. Thank you for all the replies. I didn't think there would be so much response.

So I just picked up this car from Christian Naggiar today (I hope he doesn't mind me mentioning him). This car was his former street/track car that became his sisters. Maybe some of the people in the LA area will remember them. Chris still has his k swap x which, as he put it, is scary. Unfortunately for the last few years his sister didn't have the time to enjoy this car, but I'm happy to report that I'll be getting it running and make up for some of that lost time.

20210131_123112.jpg
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As you can see the car is that great butter scotch yellow with a purple blue trim. Hence my goofy post title. It is in really great shape and I couldn't find any serious rust in a pretty good search. There is one crunch on the fender by the frunk hood. The interior yellow/blue combo will likely go. I am thinking just a chocolate brown would work nicely. I will replace the driver race seat for a standard one. If anyone has an x seat in the So-cal area please let me know. Or if anyone wants the race seat maybe we can do some horse trading. The dash only has one crack and is in very good condition.

20210131_135119.jpg
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The engine has dual DCOEs mounted into the runk. It is said to have HC pistons, a stroked 1600 block, a large valve 1300 head, and a mild performance cam. He said he believes it was a PBS B3 cam, if anyone has any info on that. There is a crane ignition unit setup with an optical distributor.

Luckily the pop up lights started working once I got it home, so I'm already one step closer to the street! This is getting a bit long, so I will reply to your suggestions in a new post.
 
Just to start, I was given some spare parts with the x. There are some new coolant hoses and timing belts. They look okay, but my thought is that age is typically the killer to rubber and not use. What do you guys think?

The car has single adjustable koni shocks at all corners. I did notice the rubber bumpers that sandwich the body are badly cracked. Is it possible to get a new kit of the rubber pads? As far as I can tell they are all working. I don't know when they were installed but what is the typical lifetime for koni shocks? Would the mode of failure be a leak of the fluid?

Are there soft rubber lines for the clutch cylinders? They would need to be on the list too. I will change the brake hoses at some point. They are currently braided stainless, which is unfortunate because it's hard to tell their age. I can inspect the caliper seals at that time.

I will add the fuel hoses to the list. The "what if" factor can be pretty high if fuel gummed them up. I hope that the fuel tank isn't rusted. I went through that struggle working on my 124 spider. At the end of the day a $170 gas tank is pretty cheap compared to sitting on the side of the road.

As far as pulling the engine and checking the head gasket, I don't think I need to suspect them at this time. Would a compression check or leak down test show the health of the rings and head gasket?

It does look like the car has run in less than the 10 years I was thinking. There is a lot to do though. Like Robert Frost said, "And miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep."
 
Yeah if you are unsure of the age of any rubber bits then change them out, I would use a new cambelt. She looks great BTW 👍

Get a leak down test then go from there...
 
Yes the compression test can tell you the state of the rings and the valves. It will also give you the state of the head gasket.

I would not tear it down unless it actually needs it.
 
So, the plot thickens. I went to pull the carbs today to clean them this week. After loosening the carb base bolts I grab one to jiggle it loose. To my surprise the whole intake manifold rocks back and forth. Looks like I'll be pulling the manifolds to see what's going on and changing the gasket.

I was able to get all the manifold bolts off but the inside lower two. You can see them in this picture.
20210206_162457.jpg

I didn't have a deep 13 to get past the stud. Will a deep 13 work or is there another trick to getting these off? The upper nuts in reach end I had to tap off with a small chisel and hammer.

Anything else to consider doing the manifold gasket?

It looks like battery in there is new. So that's good.

Any opinions on the life expectancy for koni shocks?
 
I think it will be worth picking up a deep 13mm socket. Also get a deep 10mm (1/4" drive), it's the other most common one you'll use.

Those manifold bolts/nuts can get really corroded and frozen. Don't be surprised if a stud comes out instead of just the nut coming off. And be careful, it is fairly easy to strip the threads in the aluminum head.

What type of gasket is that poking out from behind the manifolds? Looks like some type of foil?

Once you have the manifolds off, measure the thickness of the header flange and the intake manifold mounting surfaces (where the nuts sit). They all need to be the same thickness to avoid vacuum leaks. Also check the manifolds for flatness (warpage).
 
The nice thing about the Koni’s is they are not high pressure gas so they won’t lose that functionality.

The real issue is what condition are they in? Is the chrome good on the piston shaft? If yes then the seals may still be in good condition. My 40+ year old Koni’s are in good condition and work well.
 
kmead said:
The nice thing about the Koni’s is they are not high pressure gas so they won’t lose that functionality.

The real issue is what condition are they in? Is the chrome good on the piston shaft? If yes then the seals may still be in good condition. My 40+ year old Koni’s are in good condition and work well.
Click to expand...
Hey Karl, I hit the wrong emoji in my response...meant to show a 👍

Agreed, Koni's are serviceable. So as long as the shaft is still in really good condition they can be saved. The top seal is difficult to replace (sadly Koni no longer sells parts), so if they are leaking badly then you might have to send them out for a rebuild (kind of expensive unfortunately). But the other items needed to service them are easy to obtain and you can do it yourself:

Suspension: Koni strut servicing

I have a set of 4 Koni struts for the X1/9. They are new (as in never been used), but old (as in manufactured back in the 80's). Due to their extended shelf existence I decided the best thing would be to service them before installation. In this case I refer to a "service" as a complete tear...
xwebforums.com
 
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