Radiator??

X

X2SEE2

Orange X is Back!!!
Hello,
Real close to smogging the 78, but I also have a problem with cooling.
The water pump and thermostat are fine,plus new copper cooling tubes. The radiator was redone 6 years ago, and I think it still has a problem.please can somebody send me the info on how to change the fiat rad to a vw rad. I heard it works better and is cheaper than a new fiat rad.
 
Some advice...

You may not want to hear this, but here goes...

The stock radiator is a much better choice for these three reasons:

1) It is designed for the car and provides more than adequate cooling capacity.

2) It fits, it's a 30 minute swap including bleeding, requires no modification.

3) It's not that much money, especially when you account for 1) and 2).

If you still want to use another radiator, it's by choice not by necessity. Another positive to consider with a stock radiator choice is that, assuming you source it from one of our loyal Fiat vendors, you are supporting a small business that cares enough about our hobby to cater to us.

:2c:
 
I think the new stock rads are long gone...

budgetzagato said:
If you still want to use another radiator, it's by choice not by necessity. Another positive to consider with a stock radiator choice is that, assuming you source it from one of our loyal Fiat vendors, you are supporting a small business that cares enough about our hobby to cater to us.
Click to expand...
Some months back when we were discussing Chris O. had about a 1/2 dozen or so new radiators and they were all snatched up. Anything stock now would have to be a recore I think???

The last couple NOS rads sold for $400 as well...
 
Oh!

Didn't realize there was a shortage. In this case, a substitution makes sense. I was lucky and got a stock radiator a few years back.
 
budgetzagato said:
You may not want to hear this, but here goes...

The stock radiator is a much better choice for these three reasons:

1) It is designed for the car and provides more than adequate cooling capacity.

2) It fits, it's a 30 minute swap including bleeding, requires no modification.

3) It's not that much money, especially when you account for 1) and 2).

If you still want to use another radiator, it's by choice not by necessity. Another positive to consider with a stock radiator choice is that, assuming you source it from one of our loyal Fiat vendors, you are supporting a small business that cares enough about our hobby to cater to us.

:2c:
Click to expand...

I am going to have to disagree here.

1)If true, then I believe we would not be having this conversation this often. Maybe it was fine when it was new, but they are old and obviously issues are coming up because of them.

2)after the initial fabrication same is true for the VW radiator, but now you have a cheaper, lighter, readily available, and more functional radiator that you don't have to worry about. Its also easier to bleed once done, just pop headlights up and bleed a small penny size hole is not a major modification.

3) I spent less then $400 parts and labor to have my VW radiator installed. Do it yourself and its around $120 in parts and a few hours labor. So the VW rad is equal to or less then the stock rad up front, and much cheaper in the long run.

I also have first hand experience that tells me the VW radiator can handle increased cooling loads much better then stock.

I think anyone not opposed to the minor modifications needed should go ahead and get this done, it will help keep their cars on the road where they should be rather then at the shop with Tony.
 
I dont really have a preference either way here since I have no running x. Is it that big a deal to just get the ol unit recored? Cant a more efficient core be installed? I have a few rads , and thats what I was thinking I might do.
 
Well... here's MY personal history...

Of course, I'm told I live a CHARMED life, but none-the-less...

168,000+ miles on Black Tooth... and I dropped the stock old radiator ONCE at about 150K, flushed with a hose, added 50/50 concentrate of Sulphuric Acid from my swimming pool supplies (using all Safety Precautions...) laid the radiator on its FACE on a concrete drive, and let it soak for 30 minutes.

After flushing the radiator again with a hose, the DRIVEWAY was free of oil stains and rust marks.

As an added plus... the radiator has also performed marvelously ever since...

(No fishies were harmed during this procedure...)

Tom... why not take the old one to a good PRO and have it FLOW tested and repaired if necessary. Also test your radiator cap and then pressure test the entire system. I think this will expedite the remedy and then you can experiment with other radiators later on.

Remember... you too can live a charmed life also at 185 degrees or less!
 
I wonder if there isn't something else going on

I wonder if there isn't something else going on, but I don't know what.

My family of '74s are among the oldest X's on the road, all have the stock radiator, all appear to have the original rad, and I've managed to trace the service history of two them back to the original owner to confirm that the radiator was never replaced. None overheat, not even during multi-hour stop-start driving in the North Carolina summer.

So I find myself with budgetzagato here - the stock rad can work fine, even when it's old. On the other hand, abec is right that we keep on having this conversation, so it's clear that on some X's, the stock rad isn't getting the job done.

So what's going on? Not maintenance - we all know how to keep a cooling system in good order. Do the later models have poorer airflow through the rad? Was there an unnoticed change in the radiator design, or just a long run of bad radiators? Are some of us getting more airflow through the engine compartment as a result of uncluttering the engine, splash shield removal? Does desmogging make a difference (cats dump a fair amount of heat, and the smog pump exists to burn stuff in the exhaust manifold)?
 
I think its a simple answer. The cars are old, parts are harder to find so some people just take the easy road and lookk for swapable parts. Id say failure of the radiator is from cars that sat for to long. sinple as that.
 
I agree....

and my fan sensor is bad so they don't kick on unless I flip the manual over-ride I put in. I don't over heat... except when the exhaust manifold gasket went out and I lost the fluid.. :-(

My temp gauge used to spike after about 2 mins of the car idling, turned out to be corosion on the back of the gauge... wasn't over heating.

Not a matter of being against any mod's, I've got a GM alternator on the car. Just would hate to see somebody go through all of that work and NOT have it correct the problem.
 
Don't forget some other factors as well....

For instance, water pumps have a very large effect on the cooling capacity of an X. Seems like there was a thread talking about the impeller styles and impeller clearances. Both of which can significantly affect flow.

Likewise, a perfectly clean radiator with a gunked up engine block can give issues as well. A period of time without proper coolant maintenance can cause this to happen.

Then there are pinhole leaks. I fought a pinhole leak in my '81 X for years. The cooling capacity would slowly degrade over time unless I bled the radiator frequently. It turned out that there was a clump of rust right where the coolant pipe turned upward at the rear that allowed air inward but not coolant outward. There was a large spot that was corroded, but was holding together *just* enough.

So, keep on troubleshooting until you find it. The cars do cool properly when everything is correct.

Ciao,
 
X1/9's are not prone to over heating..

I have owned and been around new x1/9s from back in the day. None of them had cooling problems. We are talking about 100+ degrees ambient stuck in traffic and etc...

What is most likely happening, the cooling systems are now many, many years old and has degraded to the point where most of them need serious help..
 
Ahem, Bernice

Rupunzell said:
I have owned and been around new x1/9s from back in the day. None of them had cooling problems. We are talking about 100+ degrees ambient stuck in traffic and etc...

What is most likely happening, the cooling systems are now many, many years old and has degraded to the point where most of them need serious help..
Click to expand...

With all due respect Bernice, you're high up the chain of the most experienced people on this website when it comes to Fiat engines, and I respect your knowlege and experience... BUT...

I gotta disagree with the "prone" part, sorry. Maybe none of yours have had coolant problems, but there are MANY here that do, which actually shows they are prone to overheating. I've owned 3 X1/9's (currently 2) and all 3 exibit or have exhibited the problem when trudging along in very slow traffic. My 1974 (back in the day) did the same thing. Maybe it's new England, I don't know, but many X's really are prone to overheating. This subject comes up all the time.

I was especially disappointed last summer when I completely refurbished my engine and cooling system to "like new" condition, yet found when I was moving very slowly for about 10 minutes saw my temperature climb toward redline again as my radiator fans kicked on. (late, I might add...) I even put the lower temp switch in there to get a head start on cooling. I'll never know to this day why FIAT put the temperature sensor 3+ meters away from the source of the heat (in the radiator) before kicking on the radiator fans. That delay is really noticeable. In my case, I also have a condenser (AC) up front to slow the airflow down a bit.

My take on the issue is that the coolant pump simply doesn't have the bawls to move the coolant effectively through the system when the engine is running at low RPM. I'm currently working out a fix for that, so they'll be more on that coming.(from me) Papa Tony's got'n a head's up on that project.

Anyway, my :2c:
 
I got to wonder...

What is it about the many x1/9s I have owned that have not had cooling problems?

Maybe it's the environment, condition of the car or ?

Back in the day, I drove a 79' to So Cal. This car had a 1300cc head which upped the compression. This trip happened in the heat of Summer, like 100+ degrees. Climbing over the Grapevine is always taxing on any car in these conditions. Yet that 79's temp gauge never moved much pass 200 degrees F at just about full throttle going up hill. Then we drove the car to San Diego and back on Hwy 5 direct to the SF bay area in similar heat. No cooling problems..

All I have are personal experience with about seven X1/9 owned over 20+ years.. This is my only basis for what I speak.

What I do know is Bertone spent a lot of time testing to make sure the X would cool properly. This was one of the things they learned from building the Lambo Miura which has cooling problems.

I might be completely wrong.. or maybe I have just be lucky which says nothing about the experience of other X owners.

YMMV....
 
What are the possibility that the current after market water pumps are simply not as good as the OE FIAT water pumps?

I do know on the SAAB 9000, the aftermarket pumps don't flow any where near as well as the stock OE part which causes the car to run hotter than it should. This event caused me to change out a 3 month old aftermarket SAAB water pump and replace it with a stock OE water pump (twice the price) which dramatically reduced the temperature at idle and running.

bbrown said:
My take on the issue is that the coolant pump simply doesn't have the bawls to move the coolant effectively through the system when the engine is running at low RPM. I'm currently working out a fix for that, so they'll be more on that coming.(from me) Papa Tony's got'n a head's up on that project.

Anyway, my :2c:
Click to expand...
 
Would this "Manhattan Project"-like scheme have anything to do with the electric coolant pumps that are becoming very popular with the muscle-car and dragstrip crowd these days?:confuse2:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Plaia
a gunked up engine block can give issues as well. A period of time without proper coolant maintenance can cause this to happen.

How does one check / fix blocked passages in the engine block?

This is serious business requiring removing freeze plugs and the cover off the left end of the block behind the flywheel. I did this in conjunction with a clutch change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Plaia
Then there are pinhole leaks

I would imagine these could be found with a pressure test, or not?

Nope, not in my case. I did several overnight pressure test checks. System lost maybe 1-2 psi. And the issues continued. As I said in my post, the system sealed under pressure, not leaking outward, but drew in air as the system cooled.

Ciao,
 
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