The long march begins for the 78

Aha!!

The transmission cross member has slotted holes! Header spacing issue resolved. Not bad for a Saturday! OK... it only took about 15 minutes, but I spent the first few hours putting a new radiator in my wife's CR-V.

I happened to be standing in the garage staring at the 78 when she pulled up with a steady stream of coolant running out of the bottom. I asked "hasn't it been overheating" while you are driving? She says "No." I stick my head in the window and the F'ng gauge is pegged on the "H". Grrr.... thank you Honda for building such tough little engines.
 
Jimmy mate, wifey probably thought......!!

.... I asked "hasn't it been overheating" while you are driving? She says "No."........

......"why did he ask me that silly question - it feels just as warm HERE INSIDE THE CAR as it always does!"
It's a tuff life being a male, Jim! :help:

cheers, Ian - NZ
 
Success on adapting the FI cable to the old carb guide tube

Well after throwing my hands up in frustration a couple years ago (almost to the day), I have finally overcome this enormous hurdle. I could not have done it without the expert help of my neighbor Paul. He has been racing and building cars with his family for decades. He is the guy that convinced me that we should autocross the 85 I brought home last year. And now that we have that car mechanically sorted, he decided to make me get the 78 out of the corner and onto the street.

To recap. I am swapping a 1500/FI engine into my 78 that formerly had a 1300/carb set up. I have been in way over my head from day one, but I have tried to tackle most of the work myself as a learning experience. I have certainly had help from others when I needed a hand... or a kick in the ass. BobbyB even swung by STL to give me a little of both.

This particular problem was completely unknown to me when I started this swap. I was stunned to find out that the accel system (cable, linkage and pedal) were completely different between the carb and FI model years. The cables are a different length and have different sized ferrules with different attachment methods at both ends. Here is an old pic showing the differences in the ferrules. FI on top, carb below:

accel cable 2 txt.JPG

There is a guide tube in the central tunnel that carries/protects the bare section of either type of cable. Unfortunately the sheaths on the two types of cables differ in length as well as in ferrule size. That means that you cannot just put an FI cable into a previously carb'd X. You need to adapt the existing tube to accept the FI cable. I had been dreaming of ways to manhandle the tube into a workable form. Or to create some type of coupler to join the two differing bits. I really don't have the tools or skill set for either.

This is where Paul stepped in. He took some measurements of the carb tube and FI ferrule. Then fired up the lathe in his garage and created a custom fitted coupler in about 30 minutes. You can see it here joining the tube to the new FI accel cable.

accel coupler 1.JPG

And here are some notes on what you are looking at:
accel coupler 1 notes.JPG

Once the coupler was complete, the fun really begins. The carb guide tube in the tunnel is much longer than is necessary for the FI cable. Here is another old picture. You can see the tail of the carb guide tube thru the oval access hole to the left of the hand brake opening. As you have seen, the FI cable sheath extends all the way into the hand brake area, so there is probably a good 8-10 inches of excess tubage. Not a problem we usually have to deal with. ;)

accel cable access 2.JPG

The FI cable has fixed ends that cannot be modified, so you must trim the tube incrementally until you get just enough removed so that the cable reaches from the pedal attachment to the valve cover mounted throttle linkage without any stress. This means that you have to repeatedly attach/detach the FI cable from the pedal assembly as you test fit. If you have never had to deal with the pedal end of an FI cable, consider yourself lucky. I have attached/detached that cable end at least 8 times in the last few days.

At this point, all I need to do is secure the various bits and pieces of this cable/coupler/tube puzzle. Now I can move on to unsticking the stuck flare nut on the hose connected to the slave cylinder.
 
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Not that popular of a swap???

Now if you take measurements you can sell them as a kit. :wink2:

Very funny Greg. :fart:

Of course given the lack of threads on this topic, I am guessing this "1500/FI into a carb'd X" is not a very popular swap.
 
FI

Man, that engine bay is clean and looks great. Not that I'm in a position to do it right now, but how much was involved in moving from carb to FI, besides buying the FI intake?? I'm thinking FI would be a great upgrade. No idea what things or how much $$$ are involved. Thanks...
 
Well done Jim!

Now I know why you turned down my offer on the late model setup.
I might end up doing this (your way) too. :)
 
A lot is involved

Man, that engine bay is clean and looks great. Not that I'm in a position to do it right now, but how much was involved in moving from carb to FI, besides buying the FI intake?? I'm thinking FI would be a great upgrade. No idea what things or how much $$$ are involved. Thanks...

Hi Willy,

There was a lot more involved in this swap than I anticipated. I bought a complete 1981 FI engine from my local Fiat buddy, Chris S. I just got the engine and all the FI stuff, so I kept the 4-speed in the plans.

I am going to assume you are thinking of adding FI to your current 1300 rather than getting a 1500.You can go back and scan thru this thread for some of the details, but off the top of my head things to watch out for are:

  • The fuel injected head is different from the carb head. The FI head has cutout on the intake ports to allow the injectors to get a good spray pattern. You can use the carb head, but it will effect performance.
  • The fuel tanks are different. The carb tank feeds fuel out the top, the FI tank has fuel output and return pipes at the bottom. Again, you can get by with the carb tank, but it is not optimal.
  • If you switch to an FI tank, you will need to acquire or fab a fuel return line.
  • There is no provision in the spare tire well for the FI controller. You will need to mount it in the well and provide the proper openings for the harness to pass into the engine bay.
  • You will need to acquire and mount the electronic ignition form a 79+ X.
  • You will need to work with the existing mount points for various carb accessories. The mounts were re-used by Fiat to add in the FI components. Some work well, other need modifications.
  • You will need to add a mount for the FI fuel pump.
  • You will need to deal with the accel pedal system differences I just described.
  • You should probably consider adding the access panel between the rear trunk and the engine bay.

I am sure there is a lot more I am not thinking of. I complicated the project by adding features as I went. MWB FI Performance head, adjustable cam gear, Vick's header, MWB lightened flywheel, etc, etc.
mockup_2.JPG


I also cleaned and painted everything as I worked thru the project. This block was a greasy, rusty mess. The transmission was covered in 30 years of road grime and oil.

IM002979.JPG

While it all looks wonderful, it is completely untested. I sure hope it runs when I get to that point. ;)
 
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Yes it is Tim

Wow Jim, this is an old thread :wink2:

"Oct 26 2010, 11:38 pm"
Hi Tim,

It is kind of embarrassing I will admit, but I had never taken on a project of this scale. It was obviously too much for me at the beginning and I too easily set it aside when the going got tough, but I have learned a lot in the process.

And you got an 86 out of it when I decided I needed to clear the decks and focus on the 78. Which didn't really work out, except for you. ;)
 
You can use any ignition...

You will need to acquire and mount the electronic ignition form a 79+ X.

Actually you can use any ignition with the F.I. as long as you can attach the ECU's coil signal wire to the (1) terminal.
 
Greg is correct, but

If you have the opportunity, change to the Fiat ECM setup and ditch the points ignition. Electronics ignition is much better than the old points setup.
 
I second what Bob said... I think I would have...

considered an entire replacement though, and maybe you did.

Lots of stuff available but I can also agree with your frustration over this. Its always sumthun'!
 
Exhaust is back together

Baby steps. Probably won't be running for FFO though.

exhaust_2.JPG

exhaust_1.JPG

That last hanger spring was a real PITA. (lower right spring was the last one I attached) I was surprised how little the exhaust moves once you get all 6 springs in place. It is pretty solid.
 
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fuel injection

I have at least 3 f.i. setups if you need ..want one. the mechanical side will take a little fab work, but the l-jetronoic is a five wire hookup and easy to install. a dremel (following the f.i. intake gasket) will guide you to the porting necessary for the injectors. it is kinda a plug and play. not to say that it is uncomplicated, but if your mechanically inclined, a weekend. no drinking until it starts.:drink: I can talk you through it:drink:
mikemo90*aol.com
 
Very nice TRIAL fit... now take it down and paint it...

Geez!

Everything else down there is beautiful...

Prep the pipe and muffler well and wipe down with an appropriate solvent like lacquer thinner and/or alcohol. Then paint (no primer!) with a flat,1200 degree HOT paint in the color of your choice. Black would be the easiest and most subtle... but there is a myriad of colors to chose from.

Top off with a nice SINGLE chrome tip, or SS if you can afford it...

Can't wait to see it when done!

HA!

Keep up the good work, Jim... I think this hasta be the single LONGEST thread on the board too!
 
At this point it needs to get completed

Tony

I am not taking any steps back at this point. I have to see if this thing runs. There is plenty of time in the future to make changes.
 
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