The Rat's Nest - 81 X1/9 Build

[kmead]

Had a good day yesterday.
Any day above the dirt is a good one, right?

Started off using my hoakey rod balance rig.
Rods were a few grams different in weight.
Certainly not Bernice-quality equipment, but gets the job done.
If i was going to continue to build Fiat motors, I'd make a proper mandrel to fit the big end.
Once you pick up the center of the big end this thing works well.
Until then, I'm just using some skateboard bearings.
They hit the parting line at the cap, and throw the measurement off,
But if you repeat and repeat, and hold your mouth -just- right,
Eventually you'll pull a number out of the thing.
View attachment 82482

I'll write the numbers on the side of the rod, then wipe them off with carb cleaner and repeat,
But check this out - Gen Z guy uses a spreadsheet on his phone.
View attachment 82480

He was all miffed at how the balance setup wouldn't repeat,
constantly giving numbers that made NO sense,
So i put him on parts washing where he belongs.
He did get them all end-to-end and overall within a gram in the end, though...
View attachment 82487

I grabbed this old rotten bore gauge and tried to measure some bores.
The thing slips and sucks and blows and i threw it away.
Ordering a new one today.
Unless i throw things away I keep repeatedly grabbing them and driving myself nuts!
Jim says he set clearances to .0014, and i believe him.
This thing is two tenths off, at least in the microsecond this pic was taken as it slips away...
View attachment 82483

Also whittled a bit off the bottom of one piston that was a gram heavy.

Coached kid through ring end-gapping.
Pretty wide range for spec from .012 to .018 or so,
and good thing, because kid.
We shot for around .014 but none were under, and none were over, so we'll run 'er!
View attachment 82486

Assembled rings on pistons and annoyed kid with taking pictures.
"Dad has to take more pics for his social media!"
View attachment 82485

After rings were on pistons i went to assemble wrist pins on rods,
Then forgot i wasn't building a VW with Tru-arcs or Spiro-locs.
We got these things.
Ugh.
I hate these things.
Might just have to pull rings back off so they don't get broken in the inevitable tussle.
Anybody have a genius solution to installing these wrist pin clips?
Far as i know, it's just a painful grind levering them into place with a little screwdriver.
Make sure to wear safety glasses.
That, and do it in a contained area so they can't fly off into infinity.
View attachment 82484

Maybe I'll go and get a big box to be inside of when levering these things on...

That left us at a good place to stop.
Need to get mentally prepared for this next battle.

I so wish I had had a Dad like you. Lucky boys even if they don’t know it yet.

Thanks for bringing us along.

 

[Clatter]

I so wish I had had a Dad like you. Lucky boys even if they don’t know it yet.

Thanks for bringing us along.

Well, that’s mighty polite of ya…

I’m thinking what we had yesterday amounts to something more like child abuse.
At least, that’s what they would both say no doubt.
Note facial expressions.

One had a pan of gas and was soaking door latches, cleaning e-brake and shifter gear, oil pump, etc..

Other one had a bucket of hot water and Simple Green with scrub brushes.
Seat covers, plastic parts, interior pieces, steering wheel, etc.

I tried to make myself useful when not cracking the whip.
Got oil pump gasket surfaces flatted out on the surface plate, for example.

Older kid rattle-canned some blasted parts he had clean.
Notice we also pushed the car around back where the welder is reach-able.
That tiki hut was for a mini pig we used to have, and was completely full of rat-nasty Fiat parts.
Cleaning them all day -again- is getting old.
Notice grumpy face.
Grumpy Grumpy!
Dad’s taking pictures -again-(!)

But really,
Take this for example.
Hoses got oil, dirt, and rat bodily excrema baked on.
Soaking them in the bucket finally loosens the crust enough that it can be scraped and brushed free.
This is all from just that one hose.

Miserable.
And.. It’s just a hose.
And it’s still otherwise usable and good!
And it would be a waste of money to get a new one!
If we could even find a new one!
And money is tight!
Garumph Garumph!!

Get the picture?
This is getting really old for all of us.
Something besides cleaning needs to happen.

The crank guy told us he lost his lease.
Now he's not answering the phone.

The Italians got set back by someone cancelling an order.

I've been spending bags of money, and the car just keeps asking for more.
Plus, it's coming farther and farther apart;
Crusty dank pieces keep piling up with no place to put them.

We took this apart at Christmas and now it's spring break.
Only thing we have done is disassembly, spending, and cleaning.

Other than the fine people on this forum and their extensive help,
This project has been a suck of epic proportions!

Thanks for letting me vent.
Send an invoice for counseling services!

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I agree, cleaning old dirty parts is the least enjoyable aspect of building vintage cars. I think second worst is sanding the body for a complete repaint prep.

 

[SuperTopo]

Well, that’s mighty polite of ya…

I’m thinking what we had yesterday amounts to something more like child abuse.
At least, that’s what they would both say no doubt.
Note facial expressions.

One had a pan of gas and was soaking door latches, cleaning e-brake and shifter gear, oil pump, etc..
View attachment 82551

Other one had a bucket of hot water and Simple Green with scrub brushes.
Seat covers, plastic parts, interior pieces, steering wheel, etc.
View attachment 82552

I tried to make myself useful when not cracking the whip.
Got oil pump gasket surfaces flatted out on the surface plate, for example.
View attachment 82553

Older kid rattle-canned some blasted parts he had clean.
Notice we also pushed the car around back where the welder is reach-able.
That tiki hut was for a mini pig we used to have, and was completely full of rat-nasty Fiat parts.
Cleaning them all day -again- is getting old.
Notice grumpy face.
Grumpy Grumpy!
Dad’s taking pictures -again-(!)
View attachment 82554

But really,
Take this for example.
Hoses got oil, dirt, and rat bodily excrema baked on.
Soaking them in the bucket finally loosens the crust enough that it can be scraped and brushed free.
This is all from just that one hose.
View attachment 82555

Miserable.
And.. It’s just a hose.
And it’s still otherwise usable and good!
And it would be a waste of money to get a new one!
If we could even find a new one!
And money is tight!
Garumph Garumph!!

Get the picture?
This is getting really old for all of us.
Something besides cleaning needs to happen.

The crank guy told us he lost his lease.
Now he's not answering the phone.

The Italians got set back by someone cancelling an order.

I've been spending bags of money, and the car just keeps asking for more.
Plus, it's coming farther and farther apart;
Crusty dank pieces keep piling up with no place to put them.

We took this apart at Christmas and now it's spring break.
Only thing we have done is disassembly, spending, and cleaning.

Other than the fine people on this forum and their extensive help,
This project has been a suck of epic proportions!

Thanks for letting me vent.
Send an invoice for counseling services!

The only solace I can offer is this: We are better for what we have endured more than for what we have accomplished.

 

[Mark_Toro]

Adversity makes for good stories. At least that is what I keep telling myself

Maybe try and find a system that you can complete? Assemble the radiator into the car? Build the seats? Brakes? It all needs to be done, but is there a small victory that can be achieved?

 

[Clatter]

That was my thread. To sum up, I tried 2 different aftermarket third gear synchro rings before finally getting an OEM Yugo synchro ring which worked perfectly. Beware the aftermarket synchro rings…

Circling back around to this subject..

Two things conspire to make my transaxle build difficult:
1. Never got to drive the car and see how the gearbox behaved or talk to anyone who did.
2. It’s been rebuilt at least once already and might contain crappy aftermarket parts.

Of course there’s plenty of others, like I’ve never done one, am thick in the head, 170,000 miles, sat for decades, etc.

Here are close up pics of 3-4 outer rings.
One came used out of the gearbox,
The other came new from SteveC in AUS.

Note slight differences in profile and shape.

Anyone have suggestions as to the suitability of these parts?
Any way to inspect besides visually?

Any assistance is most appreciated.

Having to come back out and apart again after this rebuild might cause me to jump off a bridge or move to Peru or something..!

 

[Clatter]

Here’s the 3-4 inner brake-shoe/band parts.

Since I’m supposed to be getting new gears,
Think it’s worth it to replace these?
Are the aftermarket parts available today likely to be better?
Maybe these are crappy aftermarket?
How to tell if these are worn?

This is just one, but they all look pretty much like this.

 

[Clatter]

I've done plenty of those synchro refreshes on the Alfa transmissions. I'm cheap and will mix and match used parts to rebuild a box. I have found that it is less about the wear on the outside of the band and more about the wear between the "brake shoe" and the band.

View attachment 81997
If you have original machining marks visible on the inside of the band there, it will function correctly. They don't need to be 100% but some visible machining marks are good. I have seen them worn to nearly 75% thickness in that area with the outside of the band looking fair (I discard those). I've never seen wear on the end of the band that matters (the area of your second photo).

The other area of these gear assemblies that I work to make as good as possible are the dog teeth and sliders. If these are like the Alfa's in construction the dog teeth can be pressed off the gear and swapped to use the best available in the build.

I've had good luck with transmissions assembled with used parts when sticking to this criteria (50 - 100K miles w/ good action). Your mileage may vary

Looking here.. Is this ‘block’ piece relevant to what you’re saying?
Some way to check for wear, or a measurement?

 

[Clatter]

Lastly,
Here’s the new 1-2 synchro’s ID compared to the ones found in the gearbox.
Far as I know, we had an aftermarket synchro installed because the wear took place unevenly in ‘patches’ indicated by the blotchy surface markings?

 

[Mark_Toro]

Based on Alfa experience - so take it with a grain of salt.

Outer rings - I would go with the one with the most obvious machining marks on the ID. Although the other does not look so bad that I woudl throw it out (save it for the next transmission that has ones even worse)

Brake bands - I don't really review them unless there is an obvious issue. Yours look fine.

The "block piece" is what I referred to as a "brake shoe". Like the bands, I have never seen one I would call "bad". You will notice that these are the bits that wear into the outer rings and remove the machining marks on the ID. I would check for obvious issues on the surfaces that calipers are on as well as the face we can't see. Yours looks reusable.

New 1-2 synchro is a good thing (at least in an Alfa) but what you show does not look horrible. Someone with more experience there can probably weigh in.

When I am doing trans work, I usually have a couple of boxes broke open (or my big totes of old trans parts drug out) and am selecting from the best of the bunch. What you need are three more X 1/9 trans to disassemble and compare.

 

[Clatter]

A loong day out there yesterday.
Mom had to work, younger kid was at school and the older was with his friends.
Good news, the crank grinder was all done!
Even better, my kid was down there and picked it up!

Huge cleanup session of everything the kids left lying strewn about everywhere.
No matter how big they seem, still won't pick up toys.
Rodents had moved into the old pig tiki hut/parts storage unit, so it got cleaned out and vacuumed and everything sprayed down with bleach.
Putting everything away, a couple more parts needing cleaning surfaced.
Like this console.. One shot of water,
And look what color the water is that runs off.

Take a minute to savor just how disgusting....
This is the life i have chosen.

Big pushing session to evict a bus and move in an X.
It's now under the 'atrium' - my outdoor "work area".

Got it up in the air and the frunklid off and stripped everything down up front for some rust repair and paint.

Not super bad - coulda been worse, right?
Hopefully thin spots don't keep blowing into oblivion.
Plan is to hopefully just make little patches.

Seam running at the front edge of the cowl, between the cowl and frunk is one sorry design.
Exposed to the weather and facing upward? Really guys? They hoped to rely purely on seam seal...
Got started digging crust out of it. Might enlarge this hole for the brake hoses.
It's already self-enlarged!

Twisted knot wire wheeling shows some promise for success re-sealing.

And finally, on a good note, the kind and generous Rapunzell has sent her wrist pin clip stabber tool.
This thing is delightfully overbuilt - and those horrid clips with their rebellion will surely stand no chance!!

 

[Clatter]

Based on Alfa experience - so take it with a grain of salt.

Outer rings - I would go with the one with the most obvious machining marks on the ID. Although the other does not look so bad that I woudl throw it out (save it for the next transmission that has ones even worse)

Brake bands - I don't really review them unless there is an obvious issue. Yours look fine.

The "block piece" is what I referred to as a "brake shoe". Like the bands, I have never seen one I would call "bad". You will notice that these are the bits that wear into the outer rings and remove the machining marks on the ID. I would check for obvious issues on the surfaces that calipers are on as well as the face we can't see. Yours looks reusable.

New 1-2 synchro is a good thing (at least in an Alfa) but what you show does not look horrible. Someone with more experience there can probably weigh in.

When I am doing trans work, I usually have a couple of boxes broke open (or my big totes of old trans parts drug out) and am selecting from the best of the bunch. What you need are three more X 1/9 trans to disassemble and compare.

Thanks for the wisdom my brother.
Talking me down off the ledge!

You should see how many VW transaxle parts i have - a whole rack of those slider bins 10 feet wide...
Used to be you couldn't throw a rock without hitting one, and cores were free for the taking.

This Fiat trans is such a challenge because I really really want it to work 100% the first time.
A new driver doesn't need a quirky box.
And, let's face it, these are quirky enough already(!)

Since 5th was for sure toast - the bushing was grooved and sloppy in the gear,
The teeth on the gear were all worn down and so were the slider teeth.
5th gear is a no-brainer.
But.....
The gear that drives 5th... That should be replaced to match, right?
If a wasted and sloppy 5th was running against it for 170,000 miles,
5th is going to be all noisy on the highway, right?
Maybe it'll wear faster?
MWB has an OE one for fifty-two bucks.

Gear 5th 51T Splined (Fiat Bertone X1/9 12/1980-84) - OE

Gear 5th 51T Splined (Fiat Bertone X1/9 12/1980-84) - OE

www.midwest-bayless.com

Dr. Hoelscher examined my 4th gear and condemned it for bad teeth.
3rd looks the same to me.
So, the Italians are hunting these.
But, shouldn't a new gear have a new bushing inside?
Seems kinda dumb to put a new gear on a worn bushing.
(And, let's admit it, bushings are dumb in the first place)
It'll be well over a hunnert bux to get all four turning on new bushes.
Maybe i should jump at the chance while OE is still available?

Gear Bushing 4th 5-Spd+4-Spd (Fiat X1/9, 128, Yugo 1977-On) - OE NOS

Gear Bushing 4th 5-Spd+4-Spd (Fiat X1/9, 128, Yugo 1977-On) - OE NOS

www.midwest-bayless.com

Second gear was condemned, and first is close.
But.... A kid can learn to be fully stopped before using first gear, right?
Gotta save money somehow!

The "while you're in already" factor is just killing me here!

Chris Obert personally looked at all of these old used gears and synchros and said they'll all work just fine.
Only 5th did he condemn.
He's probably right.

Can't help but wonder if putting all of these different parts from around the world isn't going to make trouble.
Trouble that could've been avoided by leaving old parts in place,
Worn in to each other and happy to go for many more years!!

Too late now...

 

[Clatter]

A shorter one today.
Big brother helped me assemble the reciprocating parts.
We actually got some assembly!!

Looking closely at Bernice’s tool,
You’ll notice that the clip gap had closed and bound in the taper.
Just gotta love that they’ll sell you a part that won’t go together without modification.
With as hard as this is using a fine tool,
Imagine trying to pry/lever in a clip that won’t even fit in the hole!
Brutal…

Chopping just a tad from one end of each clip.

Before rods go on pistons i checked out our crank; at least the rod journals.
Didn’t want to do the full clean on it yet.
Snap gauges are folly, but plastigauge certainly can be as well - when done on rod bearings.
There’s nice flats on the crank so it can be set not to turn, allowing a block to hold the rod still during tighten/loosen.

We got our number - took a couple tries because the crank/rod always manages to wiggle just a tad and mess up the plastic going to 38# and back.

Really happy with these numbers.

Also happy to be here.
Finally got some assembly done…!

Thanks again Bernice.
Can’t imagine this battle without that tool!

 

[Clatter]

First checks on the crank show promise.
Grinder in LA seems spot on.

Robert’s balancing work seems good as well.
Balance marks on P/P.

Some on the crank too. Next to his paint mark.

Guy is sharp enough to know that a Fiat will allow the flywheel to go onto the crank clocked different ways.
So glad to see a paint mark on those parts.

Also check out how they use different fasteners.
Hey, if it works, it works, right?

 

[Clatter]

Also did a bit of fab work.
Good to be back in the saddle.

Got this other runk bulkhead panel from Brett to repair my rusty one.
Early one without cooling fan duct.
Started measuring for a cut and butt-weld all along the bottom.

Then it occurred to me!
Those are spot welds.. Duh.
WAY easier to drill and plug-weld.
Ready for some paint stripping and/or blasting.

Also,
Kid assembled his cleaned/painted/greased shifter and e-brake.

Gas pedal is stiff and sticks in its bushing.
Soaking it in oil didn’t help.
Anybody got a trick for freeing these up?

More assembly!
WhooHoooo!!!

 

[Rupunzell]

Good to see those pistons/con rods together and this project moving along nicely.

Bernice

 

[Clatter]

Thanks again Bernice.

Yesterday wasn’t a big one but stuff got done.
Crazy how something simple can eat most of a day.

 

[Clatter]

Flailed away all day again yesterday.

Trying to determine which holes are custom PO holes and which are factory.
Washer tank and it's er, creative attachment.
Is there a common issue to be solved here?
Why strap the washer pump in place?

Some holes were a no-brainer, like for the trucker air horns.

Underneath i didn't finish it off all pretty - it's just getting some rattlecan undercoating.

Broken battery strap stud was drilled out big enough that a bolt could be welded flush.

Started cutting away rust. Hard to know where to stop.
A few pinholes lay about in the perimeter, and if i was able to blob them shut i did so.

Happy to see the underlying support in good shape.
Most of this rust is water trapped by capillary action under the rubber frunk mat.

Rear bulkhead piece was a good donor with a matching swage line.

Got the parts tacked into place but the wind came up in the afternoon.
When you weld in the wind it blows away the shielding gas.
Makes it crispy charcoal like you forgot to turn the bottle on.
Additionally, i mighta made the patches bigger.
Attaching to thin rusted metal can be tricky.

Hope to get some time this morning to blob this all in while the wind is calm.
The life of an outdoor builder...

On a good note,
Box of gears has initiated motion in Italy.
Big order from MWB is on the way,
L Seat people are receptive to reproducing seat covers.

Thanks for following along on this most arduous of journeys.
Helps that people know just how much this takes!

 

[Mickey Dale]

Flailed away all day again yesterday.

Trying to determine which holes are custom PO holes and which are factory.
Washer tank and it's er, creative attachment.
Is there a common issue to be solved here?
Why strap the washer pump in place?
View attachment 82691
View attachment 82692

Some holes were a no-brainer, like for the trucker air horns.
View attachment 82694
Underneath i didn't finish it off all pretty - it's just getting some rattlecan undercoating.
View attachment 82695

Broken battery strap stud was drilled out big enough that a bolt could be welded flush.
View attachment 82698

Started cutting away rust. Hard to know where to stop.
A few pinholes lay about in the perimeter, and if i was able to blob them shut i did so.
View attachment 82693

Happy to see the underlying support in good shape.
Most of this rust is water trapped by capillary action under the rubber frunk mat.

Rear bulkhead piece was a good donor with a matching swage line.
View attachment 82696

Got the parts tacked into place but the wind came up in the afternoon.
When you weld in the wind it blows away the shielding gas.
Makes it crispy charcoal like you forgot to turn the bottle on.
Additionally, i mighta made the patches bigger.
Attaching to thin rusted metal can be tricky.
View attachment 82697

Hope to get some time this morning to blob this all in while the wind is calm.
The life of an outdoor builder...

On a good note,
Box of gears has initiated motion in Italy.
Big order from MWB is on the way,
L Seat people are receptive to reproducing seat covers.

Thanks for following along on this most arduous of journeys.
Helps that people know just how much this takes!

Loving following this thread. It's brilliant! Carry on.

Re Midwest Bayless, they are such a great company. I'm in the UK and needed a bunch of bits that I could only find on MWB site. Ordered late Friday, shipped Saturday and arriving today in Yorkshire, England. No messing around!

 

[Clatter]

Got some time for a little “welding” (if you can call it that)
And some paint stripping.
Progress is progress, right?

LOTS of grinding in my future…!
Maybe I’ll teach a kid how to do that.