The X1/9e. Conversion of a 1983 X1/9 - my own since 1993 - to electric

[Dr.Jeff]

Would having a transmission improve energy consumption like on a combustion engine?
Switch to a tall gear on the Autobahn and a lower gear in the Schwarzwald?

I've often wondered the same question. Reduced consumption in addition to offering a wider range of vehicle speed potential. In other words, more efficient. However the added weight of a gearbox should also be considered; if no clutch or gears are needed then why have a gearbox at all?

Going off topic a bit, sorry. I've been thinking about home solar power lately and it occurred to me that electric vehicles are most likely to be charged at night (when they are not being driven). However there is no solar energy at night so you would need a huge storage battery to collect enough energy to charge the car at night...in addition to the other electric demands of a home at night. Not very practical in my opinion. Therefore the future of electric vehicles and solar energy sources seems conflicting.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

You might check out the fiberglass parts these guys make.

You searched for X1/9 fiberglass - Classic Performance Parts

classicperformance-parts.com

Any idea what shipping would be for such large items from Croatia?

 

[X19e]

My reference for efficiency is this chart of the motor itself. It shows an efficiency above 90% for all rpm greater than 1200.

 

[X19e]

Going off topic a bit, sorry. I've been thinking about home solar power lately and it occurred to me that electric vehicles are most likely to be charged at night (when they are not being driven). However there is no solar energy at night so you would need a huge storage battery to collect enough energy to charge the car at night...in addition to the other electric demands of a home at night. Not very practical in my opinion. Therefore the future of electric vehicles and solar energy sources seems conflicting.

I don't want to be a missionar or make any regulations. So this is completely OT and for sure not the right place to discuss it, but I stopped to be quiet whenever the topic comes up.
IMHO, home solar is a way to reduce fossil energy use that every home owner can do on its own. It is good for environment and it pays for itself - just a matter of time (7 to 12 years) and how much you use for yourself. It lasts for more than 20 years without maintenance. Using the energy directly when it is produced is always the most efficient way. You will find many things that can be changed if YOU want it, e.g. find out which household machine can be programmed to start at a specific time and operate dishwasher, washing machine,... to be finished when you're back at home in the evening.
An additional storage battery can provide the amount of energy for your home at night (10 to 20 kWh) and maybe a rest for your car on a sunny day, but thinking about 100% autarky every day of the year is much to expensive at the moment. But you will find other people that forecast that this future is not to far away because of the yearly declining costs of these technologies. They talk about super energy that will be for free on good days because the system will be designed for the worst days. The energy that your solar roof produces in winter could be less than 5% (or nearly nothing) of a summer day. There have to be other environmental friendly sources like wind and water with additional storage provided by the grid that can't be installed at a single home, at least not today.
With two electric cars we try to optimize the use of our solar system. Changing cars, home office, car pools are some ways to squeeze out the max, if you want to safe money and say for yourself that your home generates much of your energy use. But every kWh you don't use ourself is sold or at least send to the grid and helps to make this more environmental friendly.
But again, we have to find another forum to talk about this and I really don't want to bore someone and talk about the challenges of this conversion.

Best regards
Frank

 

[tigeravg]

You wanted to say 217 kg? These are the components I've really weighted or calculated.

5 L oil​	-5​
spare wheel​	-14​
Gas tank with 42 Liter gas = 33 kg + Tank 7 kg​	-40​
engine​	-85​
generator, starter, air flow meter and some more​	-25​
exhaust system (standard)​	-15​
Cooling fluid	-7​
radiator with two fans and the tubes under the car	-14​
Battery -13.5 +1.5, replacement of 40 Ah lead against 10 Ah LiFePo4	-12​
new ideas if that is not enough: flywheel (reduction), rear window (plastic replacement), any more?	?​

Don't forget the heater core and associated plumbing. You will have to go with something electric as well I'd imagine (if you in fact do require heating). Shouldn't weigh more than stock junk.

And while you are at it, think about cutting out the frunk floor up at the radiator and flipping it over. You'd have crazy space as well as a low CG for mounting more battery packs. And, you'd still have frunk storage space, even if you went 8-10" deep with batteries. The X could use a little weight over the front wheels after deleting the Radiator, Lead/acid Batt, fans, pipes and fluids. Poorly biased even stock...

 

[kmead]

I would also suggest removing the primary coolant pipes in front under the frunk to go lower.

In the rear the battery pack could go under the trunk where the muffler and cat were to get the weight lower and further back to counter the weight gain in the front.

 

[dragonsgate]

Since more than seven years we've got electric cars in our family. Smart fortwo, Renault Zoe and Tesla Model 3. You can be sure that all of these cars are fun, maybe one of them a bit more The FIAT 500e and maybe the fortwo are available with sunroofs afaik. But no Roadsters or anything similar. Since a couple of years the X is our only ICE and I've always wondered how long this will last. No, not because he's falling apart, but finding time and budget to convert him with batteries and an electric motor. Until today, you don't find any Convertibles or even a Targa on the EV market.
Finally I've started, bought 5 Tesla Model S battery modules and began to dismantle the ICE and all peripheral components. Inspired by the DIYelectriccar Forum, companies like EvWest, ElectricClassicCars and several other convertions I found on Youtube, the X will be powered by a Hyper9 Netgain motor with about 85 kW. For sure I want to drive it legal on the road and it should be TUEV approved.
Let me know If you want to hear more about my project.

Very interested in your project. Converted my 84 X19 twenty two years ago and it has been a kick.

 

[Bryce-o-rama]

I've often wondered the same question. Reduced consumption in addition to offering a wider range of vehicle speed potential. In other words, more efficient. However the added weight of a gearbox should also be considered; if no clutch or gears are needed then why have a gearbox at all?

Going off topic a bit, sorry. I've been thinking about home solar power lately and it occurred to me that electric vehicles are most likely to be charged at night (when they are not being driven). However there is no solar energy at night so you would need a huge storage battery to collect enough energy to charge the car at night...in addition to the other electric demands of a home at night. Not very practical in my opinion. Therefore the future of electric vehicles and solar energy sources seems conflicting.

On the solar topic, most installations are “grid tied” here in the USA. If the panels on a home produce more than is needed, it flows into the grid. Solar typically is most productive during the times of highest overall demand on the grid; hot afternoons when buildings are being cooled and commercial electric users are at peak demand. It can do a great job of cutting the amount of fossil fuel needed during peak consumption. If you are a generating utility, it also keeps you from having to massively oversize your generation capacity to provide peak power and have it be less efficient during non-peak times.

 

[Bryce-o-rama]

My reference for efficiency is this chart of the motor itself. It shows an efficiency above 90% for all rpm greater than 1200.View attachment 66461

Based on that chart, you would want to pick a gear based keeping that motor in the 1200 - 6000 rpm range over the range of speeds you plan to drive.

With gear ratios, final drive, and tire diameter you could calculate the best option for your use. That would probably tell you if having a clutch would be helpful or not.

 

[X19e]

Don't forget the heater core and associated plumbing. You will have to go with something electric as well I'd imagine (if you in fact do require heating). Shouldn't weigh more than stock junk.

And while you are at it, think about cutting out the frunk floor up at the radiator and flipping it over. You'd have crazy space as well as a low CG for mounting more battery packs. And, you'd still have frunk storage space, even if you went 8-10" deep with batteries. The X could use a little weight over the front wheels after deleting the Radiator, Lead/acid Batt, fans, pipes and fluids. Poorly biased even stock...

Below is my new heater, a 120V 500W PTC element placed inside the original AC / heater box. Yes, the possibility to hit the front window with a heating beam is a TUEV requirement.
Anything to improve storage space is the next step after the conversion.
Batteries within 420 mm / 16.53 inch from front end and 300 / 11.81 inch from back end are not allowed!

 

[X19e]

Based on that chart, you would want to pick a gear based keeping that motor in the 1200 - 6000 rpm range over the range of speeds you plan to drive.

With gear ratios, final drive, and tire diameter you could calculate the best option for your use. That would probably tell you if having a clutch would be helpful or not.

Nice calcaulator, thank's a lot. I think the forth gear would be best for the job. I can always play a trick with max rpm.

A clutch or not is not the question about changing gears or not:

• You can always get the car into run at 0 rpm with max torque -> no clutch required.
• Switching of the power to the motor is the same as decoupling it, if you want to change gears -> no clutch required.
• To drive backwards, an electric signal to the inverter provided by a switch is required -> no clutch.
• You want to spin the motor without driving? A jack would be a solution or a clutch

 

[X19e]

I would also suggest removing the primary coolant pipes in front under the frunk to go lower.

In the rear the battery pack could go under the trunk where the muffler and cat were to get the weight lower and further back to counter the weight gain in the front.

Coolant pipes are gone. You suggest to lower the complete car or the battery pack? The latter would require a lot of modification of the car structure: the X-frame under the frunk... I won't touch it.
I have to repeat: Batteries within 420 mm / 16.53 inch from front end and 300 / 11.81 inch from back end are not allowed! Yes, with my large US bumpers I may find a place, but for my own safety I wouldn't install them within an obious crash zone.

 

[kmead]

Coolant pipes are gone. You suggest to lower the complete car or the battery pack? The latter would require a lot of modification of the car structure: the X-frame under the frunk... I won't touch it.
I have to repeat: Batteries within 420 mm / 16.53 inch from front end and 300 / 11.81 inch from back end are not allowed! Yes, with my large US bumpers I may find a place, but for my own safety I wouldn't install them within an obious crash zone.

Just suggesting you get the weight lower in the car, not lowering the car. I am suggesting removing a part of the floor, making a pan to replace it and welding it in. In the front the battery pack could still be behind the wheel centerline, in the rear

The floors in both the frunk and rear trunk are not an element which adds much structure and could easily be replaced with a new pan of similar steel thickness. Dropping the frunk floor the 76mm or so to consume the volumetric of the piping would be a worthwhile gain. In the rear the structure of the car is at the level of the bumpers, the floor is just a membrane along for the ride.

Just suggestions, very cool to see someone using state of the art components in a conversion. The X is a great candidate for this given its layout and the likelihood of it being used for relatively short trips.

 

[Bryce-o-rama]

Nice calcaulator, thank's a lot. I think the forth gear would be best for the job. I can always play a trick with max rpm.
View attachment 66519
A clutch or not is not the question about changing gears or not:

• You can always get the car into run at 0 rpm with max torque -> no clutch required.
• Switching of the power to the motor is the same as decoupling it, if you want to change gears -> no clutch required.
• To drive backwards, an electric signal to the inverter provided by a switch is required -> no clutch.
• You want to spin the motor without driving? A jack would be a solution or a clutch

Your logic makes perfect sense to me. Only if you planned to row through the gears frequently would there be much benefit to a clutch. With the torque characteristics of an electric motor, there would not be much point in shifting gears much.

 

[Santa Barbarian]

for some people a conversion to electric seems to hurt their feelings

That seems to deflect the point a bit to bring "emotions" into it. For most of us cynics, it's mainly a question of "why" not any sort of emotional reaction.

I'm not an EV hater and in fact own a LEAF, which I like a lot. But some of us wonder how the weight and impracticality impact the "fun factor" attributes in some of these 'sports car' conversions. The extra mass (and the negative aspects of EV implementation) just seem like a buzzkill in a fun, light, tossable car. I've yet to run into any post-conversion owner who feels like it made the car "better".

Your mileage may vary, naturally, and good luck with the conversion.

 

[dragonsgate]

Don't remove coolant pipes.
I cut mine off where they come out of the box covering them then after sliding a clear plastic tubing over the power cables threaded them through the cooling tubes.
The tube are extra protection.
You will need a trans of some kind.
I am running the stock 5.
Extra weight and some useless gears but fit the budget.
Clutch is optional.
It is more complication and extra weight.
No speed shifts but you can shift up and down fairly easy.
I have no clutch and in over twenty years have not missed it.
I usually take off in second and then third for 40mph or over and rarely get forth.
With 175/70's the tack and speedo are pretty much the same.
20 mph = 2,000rpm, 30mph = 3,000rpm.
In third gear it is about 500rpm less per gear.
If you are using lithium then you can probably stay at same weight or possibly less depending on battery pack.
Drillium and fiberglass are your friends.

 

[LexZ]

Coolant pipes are gone. You suggest to lower the complete car or the battery pack? The latter would require a lot of modification of the car structure: the X-frame under the frunk... I won't touch it.
I have to repeat: Batteries within 420 mm / 16.53 inch from front end and 300 / 11.81 inch from back end are not allowed! Yes, with my large US bumpers I may find a place, but for my own safety I wouldn't install them within an obious crash zone.

I just joined this forum which explains the delay in congratulating you in embarking on this project. did you consider placing one of the battery packs in the space opened up by the fuel tank and spare? It would seem like an ideal space for placing weight low and in the center.

 

[lookforjoe]

Curious to see pics of physical progress on the component install & mods to chassis, etc... It's always interesting to see well executed mods to our wonderful little car

 

[Lowtechprime]

Any idea what shipping would be for such large items from Croatia?

I wouldn't think it would be that bad, a lot of shipping is by weight.. Japan has a rate specifically for large but light weight items. Maybe Croatia has an equivalent?

 

[X19e]

I just joined this forum which explains the delay in congratulating you in embarking on this project. did you consider placing one of the battery packs in the space opened up by the fuel tank and spare? It would seem like an ideal space for placing weight low and in the center.

Ideal for weight distribution, I agree. But I wasn't able to find battery packs that would fit in there. There is a major difference betweeten both spaces: one belongs to the passenger cabin and the other not. First step would be to separate the whole space from the passenger cabin and not only with the original cover in front of the spare wheel. Why? In case of a battery failure, temperatur and pressure inside the battery pack could increase very fast which opens the burst valve to the outside. After separating you have to find a way to access this space and even load your modules to it.
Using the fuel tank space only could be an idea, if you find the right battery modules for this area. You might be able to place around 12 - 16 kWh of batteries there, good for a 100 km drive. Mine -2nd hand from a Tesla Model S- wouldn't fit, they're just too long. I use this space for charger and DC/DC converter. Together, both use the surface where the fuel tank has been and a lot of unused space for air circulation remains
May the next project find better battery modules
The space of the spare wheel is used for the HV distribution box and additional LV distribution. This place is easy to access, is dry and has room for additional equipment like a Notebook for fine tuning.