value on our cars...

Chris Obert

Chris Obert

autocrosser, X driver
Just an observation...

We need to do something about the general percieved value of our cars! As you may have spotted, I recently had a few cars up on ebay. Two cars sold for my asking prices, but what really surprised me was the offers I got for my brown 1977 X.
There was lots of interest & questions on this X, my low offer was for $100.00, and my high offer was for almost two thousand less than my asking price. I got two offers for $3,500.00. Two of the three highest offers would have taken the vehicle out of North America...
For this kind of interest I can just put it on blocks in the warehouse for another 10 years and use up the consumable parts on another X...

The general public knows what a great car these are, but none are willing to spend an amount to get one that is one of the best for a fraction of what most of us have spent...
We need to fix this if we hope for these cars to survive.
 
Just an observation, I saw your asking price. If you got what you were asking on two of the three cars, you did very well.Better then I thought you were going to.I thought your cars were very nice, but I just dont believe these cars are worth that much. Even if they are worth that much, now is not a very good time to pull in top doller. So again, you did very well. No offense intended, just an opinion.
 
Perceived value

Hi Chris,

Here in Canada, I believe value of our cars is actually higher. Many reasons for this included the fact we never had the Bertone's (so last cars sold here were 1982 models) and also rust killed many. So good survival cars tend to be in good shape and valued accordingly. I bought in the states for 2000$ US a clean Bertone 1987 in its original condition. It cost me some money to bring it in Canada and I had to spend some more to repairs the small defects (mostly switches and exhaust plus the brown wire fix). In the end, the car cost me 4500$ canadian and it would sell here for 6-8000$ canadian. So X1/9's in Canada are probably selling close to twice the price than those in the US.

One of the problem of value is there is still some good deals to be made. Your asking prices may be fair, but how much would YOU pay for the car you sold or try to sold? I know you are operating a businesse, but there are many expert in this forum with knowledge and they know what price they could find with patience.

There are also clean exemple swith common problems that we could fix, like ignition switches working only sometimes, headlamps not raising or the commun "head was removed but not put back in". We could get these cars for a few hundred dollars, fix them and get cars worthing a few thousands $.

In a near future, these car will not be seen as often. And we, "cheap owners" used to pay 25$ for brake rotors, will be replace by the new generation who is paying a lot more money for their Civic or VW parts. And in the meantime, the "bad cars" and the parts car will become rarer and we could hope for increase value.

Daniel Forest
1987 white Bertone X1/9
1980 black Fiat X1/9
 
European perspective...

The low cost of X1/9s is also an issue here in Europe. In Germany, the prices are unfortunately very low, especially for the carburettor models (due to new environmental regulations). To make matters worse, only a handful of fuel injected cars were ever sold here, the majority seem to be US reimports. I was actually able to sell one of my Xs for more more money in Poland than here. Buyers seem to expect everything and want to pay nothing.

By far the best market to sell an X1/9 is the homeland, Italy where there are comparatively few X1/9s on the road. When I was there it was only older people who recognised the car, from when they owned one as a kid (or aspired to do so). Subsequently most of the cars seem to have disappeared so the remaining ones fetch a decent price.

The low price of X1/9s unfortunately attracts buyers who are prepared to modify the appearance of the cars with dubious taste (if you want a testarossa, buy a Ferrari). This further impacts the market.

I believe the best way to have strong resale values is to start considering the X1/9 as the classic car (think MGB, Lotus, etc.). That means keeping the cars in good condition and relatively original. If all of us turn our cars into customised extensions of our own personalities which sometimes bear little resemblance to the original, it is no wonder that the market values suffer. The same goes for maintenance: just because the purchase price is low, this doesn't justify not spending money to restore the car back to a good condition.

These remarks (especially about retaining originality) are probably not shared with everyone, but I firmly believe that more good original cars on the road would inspire better appreciation and higher prices.

Cheers,
Dom.
 
Several points of reason here

First of all, the overwhelming majority of people desiring one of these cars are looking for specific, more appealing colors. The brown is most certainly at the bottom of most lists. I cannot imagine many people thinking "If I could find a nice dark brown X1/9, I would pay BIG money". Unless they drive a UPS truck by day and are really odd.
Secondly, the time of year is completely wrong for selling an X1/9, unless you are in the southwest United States. That rules out a huge market-base.
Thirdly, people may be a little turned off right off the bat by your 'catchy' title. It isn't a barn find. You may find it cute, but someone seriously looking at cars might find it questionable.
I must admit that I am surprised that your other cars got your asking price, as they seemed high, as well. But as they say in your business "There is a butt for every seat".
Most of the people here are not car flippers, so they see no advantage to seeing the values sky-rocket. If they do, than I suppose you will be wanting to crank up the prices for the parts accordingly, as well.
Let's enjoy the fact that these cars remain affordable and that we all can still afford to keep them on the road. If they get priced too high, many will be afraid to put miles on them and may have concern over repair costs.
I believe that your silver/blue X1/9 would have sold a long time ago for good money if the colors were different, as well.
Just some things to consider.
I mean no offense to those here that own brown X1/9s, it is just that most people looking for cars aren't seeking out this particular color, especially in the dead of winter.
 
I second Daniel's observation

x1/9s are worth more here in Canada because of rarity. Heck maybe there is only 40 on the road.:(

I guess most non x owners relate FIAT to junk and that's why there not worth anything. It doesn't help much when every time an x goes up for sale which runs and drives but has some rust, it is considered here to be junk. So I can imagine any new prospective x owner reading this forum coming to the quick conclusion that they don't have to pay much.

The only thing you can do is get the word out that our x1/9's are the coolest thing out there.
 
I loved the brown x, Its been my favorite color for X1/9s since I can remember. The only draw back for me was it was a 1300 4spd car and while the car was exceptionally nice , at a nearly 6grand investment to pay your asking price and shipping to the east cost, its just WAYYY too much money. I thought about offering you $3500 which IMO is about top dollar as any X1/9 out there, but with your asking price (no offense) I knew you were proud of it (and should be) but I also figured $3500 would be too low, so I didnt bother. These cars just arnt worth more then that really. Unless the car is not only a really clean/solid X but would also have to have a few of the coveted mods done, such as dayton or abarth wheels,dual carb or single DCNF, built motor, etc.. and even then the highest the cars only worth $4-4200 , $4800 max if its a semi local car and no transport is required.
 
Many strikes against it for not demanding

top dollar... Brown , '77 model, 1300 , 4 speed, Carb, wheels :fart: ...even though in cherry condition miles for this money should be closer to 20k. Wrong time of the year & possibly a consultant for the eBay ad to make the pictures "pop" out... we have a famous one here :)

While our Canadian group sure represents well with some amazing Xs I'm not so sure on this $8000 selling value. Can you post some current sales ads for all to see like we do from Craigslist here... Did Dany's resto 1985 ("Giallo") Bertone <Yellow X> get the $$$ he was looking for ?

If your referring to soaking money into our cars to preserve them and make them our own well that goes w/o saying for many of us on this board. I have huge money in paint on my 2 tone alone and the black kit will make that seem like peanuts.

Enjoy your Xs folks, numbers won't mean a thing to us in another 50 years it will all be a new group. Find them bargains :wink2:
 
I think the REAL question is...

Just HOW do we TRY harder to increase the "value" of these cars?

I think many of the points made here are valid as to time to sell, color, and originality... but those are issues that are common to almost ANY car... especially any "sports" car.

I don't really have much interest in what others think and will probably never sell mine... but I think value is really PERCEIVED in people's minds, more than anything else. Most UNKNOWING folks I know, assume my car is worth much more than it is, especially after going for a ride.

Much like the article that you recently did, plus some ORGANIZED events, especially on a more local basis, would do a lot to bring about more awareness to the general public, and thereby enhance a desire to own one. All of this is hard to do... as most folks appear to gravitate in numbers to where big numbers are... and we just don't have those numbers.

As a business man... I would never have selected this mark to focus on and must say I admire those of you that have, and are indeed somewhat successful. I wish you well and do my best to support you.

As for myself, and what I may suggest to others is... CHERISH what you have... KNOW that is has its quirks that are both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE, regardless what others might say and think... and in the words of one that really knew these cars...

"Enjoy the ride!"
 
I agree with the color thing...

bb4re said:
....My dark brown camouflages most of my rust!
Click to expand...

If it would have been red/yellow/white/black on black interior you would have had a bidding war at your asking price...especially during the spring.
 
Warning the below content contains Opinions of JJ

Condition, Location, Marketing(Photos)

Ok Chris. I will give my opinion here however you may not like it..... Lets start off with your entire fleet of rare and unusual Fiats.

The 128 and that interesting van you have would fair better in the European market in the spring time and after this recession has passed...

Your X-19s Even though they are quite nice and well sorted are all Odd colors and people have a difficulty in becoming emotionally engaged in brown sports cars. Or Silver with Pastel Blue Stripes(think Miami Vice era).

YOUR TOP DOLLAR ON A CAR COMES WHEN SOMEONE BECOMES EMOTIONAL IN THE BUYING PROCESS.


Your pictures suck( I mean this affectionately because I like you) your pictures blow chunks... You need to hire a photographer to stage all of your cars and you need a professional detailed to make sure they look fantastic. If you want perceived value to rise you must do better at this basic of Marketing.

Now on to the positive side. You have a Fiat Parts/Restoration business and that caries the perceived value of Trust. ( your not just some used car dealer, you are the Fiat Expert) Now you just need to take better photos that reflect that you are the Fiat Professional.

Here is an example...(Marketing)

I purchased this 91 535I bmw for 1600 dollars January 16th 2008. A year ago today. I had it professionally detailed, Drove it for 3 months,Blew up the transmission, and had to rebuild the tranny. Then I proceeded to take the car to a very exclusive neighborhood and took a bunch of photos(300 of them). Then I choose 22 for the final product for eBay.

I put a very high reserve and ended up striking a deal with someone in Canada for 4000 dollars.
The moral to the story isnt that I still made money even with a transmission overhall. Its that I put the work in to market it as the best example out there... Below are before and after photos of the same car. The first pic is the day I purchased it in front of the owners house. The 2nd photo is the one used for the auction.


DSC06437.jpg

1.jpg
 
I love...

...JJay's pics! Always placed in front of beautiful backdrops. Cars are always spotless and appear to be glowing.:nod:
 
Funny thing is my Camera screen was broken and most of those shots were slightly out of focus... Check out these albums for some good exampl
es

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/jeffebay/Mercedes 300 sl/

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/jeffebay/Mercedes s320/

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/jeffebay/85 Bertone/?start=20

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/jeffebay/76 Red Scorpion/

I was recently hired to travel up north to take photos of a car collection and help market them for sale on eBay for an ill and dying man. Unfortunately he passed away last week. To make matters worse someone broke in and stole the collection of cars.....So I am waiting to see if they recover them before going up there...Article below tells story...

http://www.mantecabulletin.com/news/article/10667/
 
I agree with the comment JJ made re presentation. Its all about presentation! Watch Auto Trader and see ;)

Wih great and inexpensive digitical camera's out there its easy to do it all yourself.

What does suck is that IF you know Chris then you know you are getting a top notch, fully gone thru end to end beauty of a car. But the X is a sports car thru and thru and brown (IMHO) is not a sporty color. At least not one most folks would identify with - again just my humble opinion.

Years ago in college living on my own I paid the bills as a personal fitness trainer. I had a lot of competiiton at the gym where I setup but I was young and ambitious and to set myself apart I created all sort of great hand outs on nutrition, training tips, suppliment reccomendations the whole lot.Before I knew it I had more clients than I knew what to do with. Its all how you market.
 
Last edited:
There is only way valuations will go up

There is only way valuations can go up: If more people want to own an X1/9. As long as there more Fiats than people who want to own a Fiat, the valuations will be low.

JJ's awesome marketing legerdemain can lead to a quicker sale, or a sale at a higher price... but it won't do anything for overall valuations unless he also reaches a buyer who otherwise wouldn't have bought an X1/9 at all. If he doesn't reach that buyer,then all that happens is that JJ's car sells instead of someone else's car and the overall X1/9 market stays flat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top