value on our cars...

jjay911 said:
YOUR TOP DOLLAR ON A CAR COMES WHEN SOMEONE BECOMES EMOTIONAL IN THE BUYING PROCESS.
Click to expand...


ABSOLUTELY...and great pics start the emotional response before viewing in person.

I paid $6400 USF for my X in the fall and have spent $3500 USF since (making its mechanicals as good as the appearance). Way too much for my southern neighbours but the cost of doing business here in Canada.

When my wife saw it, she fell in love instantly and at that point there was no choice but to cut a deal (despite hearing of the significantly lower prices in the USA)

Buying a hobby car is always an emotional decision.

Re. Canadian prices... Bertones were not sold here so supply is very limited....to bring one from somewhere else and pay the transportation and taxes at the border, not to mention the silly regulations/hassle that requires documentation and ownership papers be at the border 72 hours in advance of an import attempt....I've done it several times and is only worth the effort on a significant purchase... not worth it for an X IMO....much easier to pay more in Canada and buy a car that you can easily go and see.



Paul
 
I think before everyone wants the value of our cars to go up, they really need to stop and think of all the pros and cons. Pro you get higher money when selling your car Con once you sell your car its gonna be exspensive if you ever wanna buy another. Pro X1/9s gain a larger fan base. Con X1/9s are on collectors scopes. Con parts-cars that are typically given away when you buy a car from a seller or can be had cheap are not being offered anymore. Con parts for our cars will sky rocket bec they're now "in demand" Con many current owners might not be able to afford to keep their cars. Con parts for our cars will disappear as more people try to restore them to flip a buck. Con once you start to head down the road to inflation, despite your best intentions it will only grow larger and never recess. Con once this happens your left with "I remember when these cars were cheap and fun " now theyre garage queens or worst ...sitting unused in collections.Con insurance rates will go up. This believe in our society that if its not expensive then its not good; is crap. We have fun excellent little cars that are cheap to insure,cheap to run & cheap to fix. Not to mention they're our little secret, I say keep it that way.
 
They will never I repeat Never be expensive to insure.

Example...of cars I have insured in the last 24 months.

85 Bertone agreed value of $7,500 with Statefarm Ins. Monthly Premium $10
73 Jaguar XKE v12 Roadster Agreed value of 50,000 Monthly Premium $14

So you see value will not greatly effect the cost to insure these cars. I also would not worry too much about them being on the collectors eyes either. Keith Martins sports car market value guide puts them as an F grade on the collectible scale..:cool:
 
HOw about a discussion on Quality Control. that is also a factor in Value retention and consumer confidence... Check out this video of an East German car plant in a time of steel shortage where they have to use inferior components. They hammer, kick and pull the body panels into place... I believe this was called the Trabant...but not sure on that...

http://www.livevideo.com/media/playvideo_fs.aspx?fs=1&cid=F4B5854611D141AFA19359F36DCDC74F

I wonder what years there were better or worse quality control at Fiat???
 
Interesting...

Well...Mr. Obert, you are nationally known in the Fiat circles. My mechanic mentioned your name over ten years ago, way before I joined Xweb. It's been a privilege to have you here because of your knowledge.

Likewise, I share your sentiments regarding the publics misconceptions about or cars. But I must demur in that the simple lack of awareness vastly exceeds any misperceptions. These cars simply don't matter to the general public. Of course, they mean worlds to us!!!

I started the thread...the "Official X1/9 market value thread" with exactly your themes in mind, and to cite real world examples in order to solicit commentary, and you have commented there, please continue to do so.

To sum it up, Fiat, even in it's halcion days here in America, was never widely held as some great automotive phenomena, perhaps 125,000th of a percet of Ferrari, or something thereabouts. This has only decreased. The public percept of Italian cars is two things, Lambo and Ferrari, and I'd say more people more readily know that Ferrari is Italian.

I too would like to see public perception change, but on the other hand I don't see how that would substantially change much of anything if it did......do you? The values go up? We'd have to pay more. More parts available? They'd be more expensive. There are probably close to as many parts as are required, just not quality parts!!! QC for second or third tier parts makers is dismal, to put it mildly.

Just my thoughts, But I want to end by saying that I appreciate everything you have done, and are doing, for the Fiat brand and community in this country and I admire you greatly and it's a privilege to be on this board with someone of your stature.
 
Yep, Those Would be a Trabant Alright!

Actually Jeff, the side body panels were made of a wood fiber composite on those Trabants! I go to Hungary every two years (wife's from there) and there are many Trabants still on the road. They all look the same, and they are quite ordinary. They are known as "the communists car".
Love the first guy in the vid BTW with the mullet! Yikes!!!
 
Trabants have a HUGE fan base and many clubs. I kinda dig em too.... never wanna get in a wreck or rain storm in one, but still I dig em
 
love-this-thread.jpg
 
The Age Newspaper's Future Classics

Here in Australia, the Age Newspaper published a list of 9 future classics.

Holden Monaro 2001-06
BMW M3 1992-2000
Mazda MX-5 1989-1997 (Miata)
Range Rover 1972 - 1995
Subaru WRX 1994-2000
Nissan 200SX 2000-03
Jaguar XJS 1976-1996
Fiat X1/9 1978-1989
Honda Integra Type R 1999-2001

This is what they said about the X.

Prices now $4000-$10,000 - To convert to US$ deduct 10%.
It's tiny and early ones had a 1.3-litre engine and a four-speed gearbox but the Fiat X1/9 could easily be destined for big things in the collectability stakes. The secret to the car is the mid-engined layout, which makes it a strict two-seater but also gives it tremendous balance and handling.
Larger people might struggle to fit inside but if you do, you'll soon discover the brilliant chassis. Watch for rust and wrinkled metal under the luggage hatch (the bonnet) as plenty were driven enthusiastically and left the road in much the same way.
The last batch was called Bertone (not Fiat) and got a bigger engine and a five-speed gearbox. They're the plums now.

Link - http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/classics-in-the-making-20090921-fxfd.html

And is if to prove the point here are 2 cars currently for sale in Australia.

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars...=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=6&silo=1011

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars...=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=6&silo=1011
 
Ha!

Maybe, but both the Range Rover and the Jaguar XJS V12 will only reach that status if they actually survive to see it. It'll be the rarity of ther existence that will give them their monetary value. The 1980's-90's Range Rovers were nightmares.
 
ezitag said:
Here in Australia, the Age Newspaper published a list of 9 future classics.

Holden Monaro 2001-06
BMW M3 1992-2000
Mazda MX-5 1989-1997 (Miata)
Range Rover 1972 - 1995
Subaru WRX 1994-2000
Nissan 200SX 2000-03
Jaguar XJS 1976-1996
Fiat X1/9 1978-1989
Honda Integra Type R 1999-2001
]
Click to expand...

There was a similar article in the Jan. '09 issue of Hemmings Sports a & Exotic... "Sleepers: Get 'em Before They're Hot"
http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/2009/01/01/hmn_feature1.html

They gave the X a "cost today" of $2000 to $12000 !!

Personally I think the higher value question falls squarely into the "be-careful-what-you-wish-for" category... Yes, higher prices would attract more attention from dealers, parts vendors and shops... but the environment we currently enjoy of cheap decent cars (and parts) would quickly change.

Guess it just depends on whether you're on the selling... or buying... end of things.
 
Not that wishes come true...

...but I'm in the camp wishing values would
increase to reflect intrinsic merit.
Simply because that's what's best for preserving the marque.
Low buy-in preserves mentality of disposable,
of not worth spending money on.
Meaning vendors suffer, and disappear.
Meaning vendor motivation to repro parts suffers as well.
Meaning the cars continue to disappear.
And therefore owners motivated by cheap & fun
will be forced to find another marque.
Since loss of those folks is inevitable,
I'm with ChrisO on this subject.

I've experienced what happens when values soar.
Having owned a 356A Porsche for a decade.
While disappointed I was priced out of finishing resto,
Also noted that throwaway cars became worth saving.
As such, folks looking for cheap & fun car were forced to look elsewhere.
Which is how I came to discover merits of X1/9.

As for the "how"...also wish I knew that answer.
Asking large money for primo cars is a start I suppose.
But one fraught with no sale situations.
Based on my 356 Porsche experience,
an active presence in driving and showing motorsport
would help.
As in Matt's national presence in SCCA racing.
Locally, my trackday X draws incredible attention.
Not a TopDawg, but much quicker than anyone expects.
Which foments interest from trackday candidates.
Really shoulda marketed IceBlueX and LesX to those folks.
Alas...street oriented buyers showed up before I could.
Next X I sell will be pimped in that direction.
 
olerascal said:
...
I've experienced what happens when values soar.
Having owned a 356A Porsche for a decade.
While disappointed I was priced out of finishing resto,
Also noted that throwaway cars became worth saving.
As such, folks looking for cheap & fun car were forced to look elsewhere...
Click to expand...

...and that's basically my point. I enjoy the fact that there is a stylish, competent, baby Italian exotic that one can buy, drive and maintain for pocket money... and one is not afraid to actually drive it for fear of scratching the paint... That's incredibly rare in today's car hobby world.

I too have experienced the things that happen when particular cars get "discovered" and prices soar... I play with British cars as well and I can remember when you could buy tired, but drivable MGs and Triumphs for few hundred bucks and have a blast. Now I'm watching TR4 prices approach 25K and big Healys are now passing 50K. Hell, even late production buggy-bumpered MGBs are creeping into the mid and high 4 figures (and that's just plain silly). That kind of money takes the casual fun out of things.

I have a brother who has a hobby/business of restoring and supplying parts for Sunbeam Tigers... that was a car that not too many years ago one could buy cheaply and have a ball with. Probably the only Carroll Shelby project that could be had for under 5 figures. Unfortunately, the car was "discovered" by the Barrett-Jackson types about 10 years ago and now I watch them being traded for 40 to 50 thousand and the prices are still rising... with completely unrestorable carcasses going for 15K. That has certainly priced me out of that market... and even if I could afford one, I'd be afraid to drive the thing... Where's the fun?...

Now, would I feel differently regarding X prices if I was trying to run a business supplying parts and maintaining them... you betcha. But as a buyer who wants to have cheap fun with an interesting car, I'm happy just the way things are...
 
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Keep the prices low. If your looking at these cars to make a buck, go buy a TR3 or Porsche. Bottom line, Im shocked that this conversation is even made it this far. If someone can explain to me how higher prices will be beneficial, Im all ears. Vendors etc.. arnt suffering, its just not our cars time yet, quit trying to rush things and be patient. The super low cost and buy-in and "throw away mentality" is whats gonna make these cars valuable, does no one else see that? really? Ill break it down. Our cars are like hot wheels toys. The value of them was and still is a $1 very low buy in, and because of this buyers use and play and beat the crap out of them, they eventually lose,trade,or break their favorite one, bec thats the one they enjoyed the most and after all its cheap. (so did every other kid) and now what was once a cheap popular "throw away" toy has been abused and thrown away, and now not many are left due to their once popularity. The value and market for that particular hot wheels car will rise when someone who might of had one or lusts after one a friend may have had, and they decide "they have to have one NOW" So is trying to increase the value a wise thing to do with our cars? I think not. Will they eventually skyrocket? Id say probably some what, but if your looking to gain "wealth" outta them, dont hold your breath. Besides does the monetary value of the car diminish any of its attributes? NO
 
A good point....

I would tend to agree that trying to profit by buying and selling these cars is an exercise in futility, except for the person who is "profiting." On the other hand, maybe there are those that enjoy fiddling with them and don't mind making just a little bit of money and pass on the car in good shape to someone who can enjoy it.

Either way....it's important to realize that the community surrounding the X, and even vintage Fiats as a whole, is nano in the automotive world and it will probably never be anything but. The name recognition of even MG is greater than Fiat. So...take it for what it is. I would like to keep my cars running for several more years and enjoy tinkering. I do not anticipate profit, nor do I anticipate a dramatic jump in value....ever. The cycle in a car's history in which it might other do such a thing is long past for X's. MG's and TR6's are blowing the doors off, but that's okay, we all know that the X, and even the Spider, are much more sophisticated cars, however finnicky.
 
I too dont get the lets pump up the value thing. Others cars values werent made, they just happened. I believe its a great overlooked car, its time will come. I appreciate everyone that takes the time and effort to locate or produce all the hard to find parts. I myself am constantly pushing a buddy of mine to get more involved and supply a broader range of parts.I dont get someone complaining because someone dosent want to pay thier price. Everyone has thier own reason for what they are willing to spend, be it their budget limiting thier decesions or maybe they just have other prioritys that come first. These cars are just toys, for me anyways.There is a limit to what I can throw at them myself, thats why my cars evolve so slowly. Ive had my spider for almost ten years, and only the driveline has been completely restored. My poor x just sits waiting for its turn. Its turn just got pushed back because my verde just blew a headgasket. Life goes on.
 
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