What did you do to your X1/9 today ?

[kmead]

That doesn’t look like a problem.

If your fan is cycling and running for a couple of minutes pulling it down then you are fine.

If the fan is running and the temperature is not coming down it is more of an issue.

When this is happening you may want to put your foot on the gas to raise the idle to 1200-1300 rpm. Due to the amount of tubing between the engine and the radiator, it can causing enough friction that low rpm will not pump quite enough coolant. This will raise the volume of coolant moving and should lower the temp.

Some owners add a switch to turn on the fan and keep it on when they see this rise happening.
Other owners add a second fan on a new switch and others will add a two temp thermo switch to turn on one fan at a lower temp and the second fan at a higher temp.

This isn’t hard and can be done pretty easily and yes we know you can do it.

 

[JNewm]

I'd also be curious about the water-to-coolant mix. 50/50 would be overkill and sacrifice a lot of cooling potential. Seems like out in SoCal you could get away with running 80/20 or more, even pure water with Water Wetter.

 

[tvmaster]

That doesn’t look like a problem.

If your fan is cycling and running for a couple of minutes pulling it down then you are fine.

If the fan is running and the temperature is not coming down it is more of an issue.

When this is happening you may want to put your foot on the gas to raise the idle to 1200-1300 rpm. Due to the amount of tubing between the engine and the radiator, it can causing enough friction that low rpm will not pump quite enough coolant. This will raise the volume of coolant moving and should lower the temp.

Some owners add a switch to turn on the fan and keep it on when they see this rise happening.
Other owners add a second fan on a new switch and others will add a two temp thermo switch to turn on one fan at a lower temp and the second fan at a higher temp.

This isn’t hard and can be done pretty easily and yes we know you can do it.

Thanks. This has two fans, but I assure they come on together. I’ll have to go back and watch the show again and see for sure what was done. They stay on for a minute or two, then shut down. But they only come on when the car’s been sitting, idling. I’ll remember the throttle trick next time. Switch sounds interesting too. thanks. Don’t get to confident about my abilities however :/

 

[tvmaster]

If this:

is as high as it goes, you do not have a problem. On some newer cars the gauge is rigged, so it stay smack in the middle over a wide range of actual temperatures. Not so with the X1/9, it gives you the raw, unadulterated data.

When the fan kicks in, do you see the temperature starting to drop? How long does the fan stay on? When I got my car, the fans would short cycle, staying on only for a second or so at a time. Replacing the broken thermoswitch solved that problem.

That’s pretty much as high as it went, although if it had gone higher I would have shut down. As soon as the car was moving again, temperature went back to normal, 190f.
When the fans kicked in, I’m not sure if it dropped, but it stopped increasing. I’ll look up ‘thermoswitch’ and see where that’s located.
From the service manual: “ELECTRIC FAN OPERATION - Fan: The electric fan is controlled by a relay. The relay is controlled by a thermostatic switch. When water temperature is 194° F (90° C) or above, the switch closes. This connects the fan to power thru fuse L. The fan continues to run until the temperature drops below185' F (85' C).”

I‘d say the fans kicked in pretty close to 194F. I dont think it dropped as low as 185f before the fan turned off, however.

 

[NEG]

Cycling of the fans and temp is normal if stopped in traffic, the gauges are pretty accurate. As stated you could change the anti-freeze / water ratio but that will also reduce the amount of corrosion protection as well. I think you are worrying over nothing. If however the temps start rising and the fans come on when driving then you do have an issue! I have that T shirt all done and dusted.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I respectfully disagree with others on some of the cooling system comments made. In my opinion if the entire cooling system is operating correctly then it is NOT normal for the temp to rise regardless of the conditions. The thermostat (in the head) controls the actual engine temp. The rest of the cooling system should always have a cooler temperature than the thermostat's set value, so that the t-stat can effectively maintain the target temp by cycling open and closed. There will be a slight variance in operating temp as the t-stat cycles, or under heavy load conditions - but only momentarily as the system circulates through the engine to recover that delta. Otherwise if the temp climbs above the t-stat value then something in the cooling system is insufficient. This applies to all cooling systems in general and I am not saying the X1/9's stock design is always sufficient to operate this way. Depending on many variables, the system may require appropriate upgrades to allow proper operation. Is it the end of the world if this isn't always the case? Of course not, but it could be the end of the engine if things get too hot too often. Once again, this is my view on how any cooling system should operate, others may have different views.

 

[tvmaster]

Cycling of the fans and temp is normal if stopped in traffic, the gauges are pretty accurate. As stated you could change the anti-freeze / water ratio but that will also reduce the amount of corrosion protection as well. I think you are worrying over nothing. If however the temps start rising and the fans come on when driving then you do have an issue! I have that T shirt all done and dusted.

As both a new X 1/9 owner and mechanic () worrying is pretty much all I do now...

 

[tvmaster]

I respectfully disagree with others on some of the cooling system comments made. In my opinion if the entire cooling system is operating correctly then it is NOT normal for the temp to rise regardless of the conditions. The thermostat (in the head) controls the actual engine temp. The rest of the cooling system should always have a cooler temperature than the thermostat's set value, so that the t-stat can effectively maintain the target temp by cycling open and closed. There will be a slight variance in operating temp as the t-stat cycles, or under heavy load conditions - but only momentarily as the system circulates through the engine to recover that delta. Otherwise if the temp climbs above the t-stat value then something in the cooling system is insufficient. This applies to all cooling systems in general and I am not saying the X1/9's stock design is always sufficient to operate this way. Depending on many variables, the system may require appropriate upgrades to allow proper operation. Is it the end of the world if this isn't always the case? Of course not, but it could be the end of the engine if things get too hot too often. Once again, this is my view on how any cooling system should operate, others may have different views.

My local dude took his Covid thermometer to the engine block itself, and it was 212f I think? Well, it looks like a Covid unit, but is for kitchens and barbecues - goes into the 500’s. Master mechanic boy replaced water pump, thermostat and thermos witch in the new, aluminum radiator, and put in a relay for the second fan. So unless the pipes are blocked....

 

[Rodger]

I agree with Karl @kmead. It is normal for the coolant temperature to rise if the car is idling and not moving. There is no airflow through the radiator so no cooling. That’s why the fan is there with the thermoswitch. Changing to the aluminum radiator and adding a second fan was a great upgrade, especially in SoCal. There may be some corrosion or build up in the coolant pipes that can interfere with the flow, but Ant seemed to think they were good, even if he mistakenly thought they were stainless.
The fans cycle on and off as the thermoswitch opens and closes so that means the coolant temp in the radiator is staying in the correct range. As Karl suggested, increasing the rpms while sitting will help with the coolant flow.

 

[NEG]

^^^^^^ Exactly, I never had a classic car that hasn’t displayed temperature cycling on the gauge and the fan cycling on/off if left to idle or stuck in traffic.

In use the Tstat (using standard x19 parts) will open at 82c and be fully open as the coolant temp rises futher. The Rad thermo switch will operate the fan at 92c and then switch the fan off when the rad temp drops to 87c....therefore the Tstat is always open and the temp cycling is controlled by the fan switching on and off in the temp range of the thermo switch.

 

[jimmyx]

I respectfully disagree with others on some of the cooling system comments made. In my opinion if the entire cooling system is operating correctly then it is NOT normal for the temp to rise regardless of the conditions. The thermostat (in the head) controls the actual engine temp. The rest of the cooling system should always have a cooler temperature than the thermostat's set value, so that the t-stat can effectively maintain the target temp by cycling open and closed. There will be a slight variance in operating temp as the t-stat cycles, or under heavy load conditions - but only momentarily as the system circulates through the engine to recover that delta. Otherwise if the temp climbs above the t-stat value then something in the cooling system is insufficient. This applies to all cooling systems in general and I am not saying the X1/9's stock design is always sufficient to operate this way. Depending on many variables, the system may require appropriate upgrades to allow proper operation. Is it the end of the world if this isn't always the case? Of course not, but it could be the end of the engine if things get too hot too often. Once again, this is my view on how any cooling system should operate, others may have different views.

Not sure I agree. The thermostat in the X is designed to limit coolant flow cold and fully open at 180 degrees. Once full operating temperature is reached it remains open until a significant temperature drop starts the closing process. It is not in constant motion regulating anything once it has fully opened. There are many issues affecting cooling, but to start the diagnosis the key issue is if the temperature rise above normal occurs while driving or at idle. While driving, the fan(s) have no effect on cooling. The forced airflow over the radiator will be far greater than the fan(s) could ever provide. In this case the rise occurs during an extended idle. If no variation in temperature was the design goal, Fiat would not have an approximate 10 degree spread from where the fans turn on and off. The tolerance between the two would have been much closer if zero rise limiting was the target. The downside is if the fan(s) were held to a very narrow range of let's say one or two degrees, the normal fluctuation of the coolant temperature would have the fans constantly cycling while driving. The question is are the fan(s) engaging at the proper temperature? Do they remain on until the temperature has dropped? If not, a good guess is the thermostatic switch. If the fan(s) do engage at the proper temperature, and remain on with no drop, there are other cooling system problems. In modern stuff, the temperature varies too, but because the temperature gauge (if equipped) is not a gauge at all, but designed to show "normal" temperature even though fluctuation in temperature is actually occurring. Due to engine thermodynamics, outside air temperature variation, component variation, etc. I'm not convinced a rock steady coolant temperature can ever be realistically be achieved.

 

[kmead]

First off all gauges lie. What you are seeing is not a calibrated indication of the actual temperature, particularly on a gauge that is older than some owners.

You could choose to put a lower temp fan thermoswitch in to have it run more often and longer. The thermostat in the engine will adjust its opening if the return flow is getting too cool.

It is something to keep an eye on and monitor. All cars have a ‘range’ they work in, as long as your car stays in the range you are likely good to go.

One thing you can do is turn on the heater and its fan on high. If the temp goes down a lot then you may have a less than fabulous radiator which is partly clogged.

 

[Bjorn Nilson]

Of course the temperature always vary a little bit depending on revs, "latency" in t-stat etc. If the temp is around 90 degrees C always, there is no need to vorry. But in my case the temperature slowly rises during heavy load only, and I assume that is happening because of an ineffective radiator or restricted air flow.

 

[DaveR]

It has been my experience that temperatures rise and fall within a range in an X1/9 cooling system. A thermostat tries to keep a engine warm, but once the thermostat is wide open it has no more control of the temperature and that is when the fans kick in. This is based on my experience of driving a X1/9 in Minnesota in both summer high 90's heat and -30's cold. You don't get heat in -30 unless you keep the rpm above 3000 rpm.

 

[tvmaster]

Today, finally got around to fixing the wretched steering wheel grind, and ran new wiring to the back shelf for eventual stereo sound improvement measures. The Bertone? That’s from the dash. Still sounds ok, isn’t blown or anything.
But so many speaker problems could be solved by sticking a pair of Realistc Minimus 7’s everywhere you can think of.
Man, next to the Yamaha NS10’s, these little bookshelf wonders can do no wrong.
I wish I could find a way to keep them on the shelf, but they’re just a weeeee bit too large...

 

[dllubin]

I checked to see if Minimus 7s would fit many decades ago. I've got the black ones in the cast aluminum cases. The early models were the best. They were made in Japan with high end titanium dome tweeters. I'm using several as surround speakers. They sounded better than the not inexpensive surround speakers I had.

Maybe you can find a creative way to mount them.

 

[tvmaster]

I checked to see if Minimus 7s would fit many decades ago. I've got the black ones in the cast aluminum cases. The early models were the best. They were made in Japan with high end titanium dome tweeters. I'm using several as surround speakers. They sounded better than the not inexpensive surround speakers I had.

Maybe you can find a creative way to mount them.

There’s a metal pair with mounting brackets on the local Craigslist. Maybe it’s time to pick up a second pair. Dollar for dollar, these could be the best speakers EVER made. All things being relative. I think they were $30 each?

 

[dllubin]

There’s a metal pair with mounting brackets on the local Craigslist. Maybe it’s time to pick up a second pair. Dollar for dollar, these could be the best speakers EVER made. All things being relative. I think they were $30 each?

I got a pair for $5 at a garage sale and that included about 20 feet of 16 gauge Monster Cable for each. I got another one at work that was getting ready to go in the garbage because nobody knew what it was. It was a model #40-2030B which is one of the better ones. Mine have brackets for wall hanging on the back. There are threaded holes with small bolts holding on the brackets that could probably used to attach a different style hanger.

 

[tvmaster]

After two months of waiting, our Vitaloni Baby Tornado’s finally arrived. Why so long? We were holding out for the blue glass (low glare), convex versions. Problem MWB has is they can’t order specific mirrors, but instead take what they’re sent. I almost had to buy them from a U.K. supplier.
It‘s so easy to see blindspots now, on both sides.

 

[kmead]

After two months of waiting, our Vitaloni Baby Tornado’s finally arrived. Why so long? We were holding out for the blue glass (low glare), convex versions. Problem MWB has is they can’t order specific mirrors, but instead take what they’re sent. I almost had to buy them from a U.K. supplier.
It‘s so easy to see blindspots now, on both sides.

View attachment 45843 View attachment 45844

So much better than the ‘turbo’ on these cars. Nice choice.