X1/9 appraised today....

Peter, I think your insurance man

took some great pictures... You should try and take some just like it and post them here.

BTW, I think your car is worth every penny.
Having spend nearly that on my X1/9, I can understand why.

Thanks for sharing and being a part of making our cars truly great.
 
Congratulation

Pete,
I’m happy for you the appraisal recognizes all the work you put on that X.

Congratulation :thumbsup:
 
Appraisal

Hi,

You must first acknowledge the X1/9 price in the Canadian market is higher. There are some logical reasons for that. 1) We never had the Bertone north of the border, so sales stopped in 1982, 2) Canada (especially the Quebec province) is a tough country for cars because of the use of salt on the road in winter and the level of humidity. Fiats were rusting in the dealer's parking lot when new. So the survival rate is not high.

Then, there is appraisal and appraisal. Some business will give you the higher number to please you and have you as a customer for a long time. The good business are the only one some serious insurance compagny will accept. I'm having my Fiats insured with the Silver wheel plan. And I have them appraised by one of the few place they accept in Quebec, PGE (Pierre Grenon evaluation). My 1980 X1/9 with less than 40 000 miles was evaluated at $10 000 10 year ago. The engine was rebuilt, the paint was new inside and out, a 1987 leather interior was fitted. And there were a lot of hi-performance goodies (like twin carbs, Ansa exhaust, coil-over suspension, etc). I will need a new appraisal when it will hit the road again.

Last year, I had to insure my 1987, bought in the States for $3000 US. Cost me $4500 when taxes, exchange rate and some urgent repairs were done. Evaluation for that 48 000 miles car was 7400$.

Both evaluation really reflect the local market. I'm into X1/9's long enough to know about it. I started a club 20 years ago. I'm contributor for the Club X1/9 de France and I was for many years contributor for the UK club.

References for the appraisal of my car, as stated in the report from PGE were from Standard Catalog of Imported Cars, Hemmings Motor News, Ebay.com and some internal sources.

When they evaluated a car (at least here), they are taking the market value, taking account of the condition of the car. All goodies are not only added to the car. They first have to remove the value of the original parts. So putting some $1000 mags on a car is only adding something like $200 is you are figuring out the original mags actually worth $200 each (this is only an example). And don't do what I did when I got my 1980 car appraised: Hoosier doesn't impress the appraisal guy. They only (mostly) check thread depth...

I believe $15 000 for Yves car maybe a little high. But just a little.

Daniel Forest
1980 black Fiat X1/9
1987 white Bertone X1/9
 
That's outstanding!!

That's almost $19,000 USD! I kinda had to hold my breath untill I checked the exchange rate. LOL Very nice job! :worship: Can't wait to see it in person at the FFO.
 
My appraisal,,

Silver wheels, cost was $ 165.00 .
It states the mint value at $ 7,500 (four years ago ) They allowed me $ 2,800 for mine and fair + condition. I was satisfied as my main interest was to get a good premium anyway. Premium is $ 91.00 / year full coverage. He claimed it was based on auctions,,publications and special interest sites. Mine is basically stock and a driver. My pleasure is to drive it mainly, and up to now keeping it rust free. Too many hobbies and interests, and low energy, but hoping to do a makeover this fall.
 
Peter, check your private messages and email....I am in your neighbourhood this week and would love to meet up with u and your car... my contact info is in the email.

Are you heading to the Italian Festival in Ottawa next weekend?

Paul
 
Jim get a new calculator...

Conversion between the dollars is not that drastic... 6 thousand $ difference... I don't think so :)

$18885.7413US

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Jim Young said:
That would be 14,000 U.S. Angel * 93.66 c./ U.S. dollar.
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Checked calculator,,

it's fine.. :eek:mg: Actually I used an online converter. I was using Yves figure of $15,000 Canadian, and that would be roughly $14,000 u.s. Our dollar is currently worth about 94 cents. I think we used different quotes. :)
 
Hey JJ... Looks like a great BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY!

Buy a bunch of X's, have them insured and evaluated in Canada... then burn them to the ground! You could make millions!
 
Black-Tooth said:
Buy a bunch of X's, have them insured and evaluated in Canada... then burn them to the ground! You could make millions!
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Based on the logic presented I would fair even better on an appraisal if I shipped them to the North Pole. As the Climate and conditions as well as the rarity of seeing one up there makes them "more Valuable"

Seriously....These appraisals are not legitimate. They are evaluations. I see no reference in the appraisal as to how they came to a value and one appraiser used chattel in the appraisal witch is against the rules when appraising personal property. If these appraisers are using cost of restoration and materials approach and not a sales comparison approach, then why are they not 30,000 or 40, or how about 50,000. There is no basis for how they arrive at a figure. This thread will continue and I imagine will get a lot more debate. Every Price guide in I can find puts these at 8000 dollars tops. There was an Austin Healy that sold at Barrett Jackson in 08 for 140,000. Today they still rate the value of those cars at 45,000 to 80,000. So even a very high sale at a public auction does not justify a higher value. More later..:hmm2:

And Peter I apologize if I offended you earlier. I think the quality you put into your car is out standing. I would love to have your shinny engine. I was just giving you my unbiased true opinion on the market viability and value as such from my experience. Take it as it is most people you run across in life will just tell you what you want to here because they like to avoid conflict....We call them Politicians. :)
 
Maybe the difference here is the semantics of "appraised value" for insurance purposes (you can insure ANYTHING at ANY amount if you're willing to pay the premium) and "market value", and those are not related really. I think Peter is trying to insure his car above market (because it is unique) and his insurance company wants something to back this. Don't they (insurance companies) just play the actuary game? They know the odds of a claim vs. the cost of premiums and the likelihood they will come out ahead. If something (Peter's car and desired insurance value) fall outside their experience (known risk vs. profit) they want something to go by? I don't quite get it. If I ran an insurance company and someone wanted to insure a vehicle over market, I'd say sure, it'll cost you X in premiums though. I'm not familiar with this business though, obviously. I know when I asked to insure my Midget (with Hagerty) I threw out 8k as agreed value which is on the high side for a quite nice example of my Midget, and mine isn't that nice, but they didn't seem to care, in fact the price of the premium didn't even change! I should have went to 20k maybe? Then ran it into a wall? (it's been for sale for months.....)
 
That actually makes a lot of sense... So I guess the only question remaining is how do these "appraiser" arrive at a value. Because believing in this logic It makes sense to insure it for the most...:D
 
Actually Jeff... the appraisals ARE legitimate...

1. They are the basis of the "agreed upon value" that the company will indeed pay out for a total loss... and...

2. Will also help determine the annual PREMIUM that the owner will pay each year for this coverage.

The rest... what the WORLD will pay... like you experience 10 times a year... varies considerably and is based more on EMOTION and PERCEPTION than anything else, or anything REAL.

As far as you offending others... well yeah... you do that and maybe you should stop. Secondly, makes you appear to be sniveling and whining and jealous... hurtin' you and your rep more than anything else.

As my old Pard'ner Texas Bix Bender always says... "When ya find yurself in a rut, the first thing ya gotta do is quit diggin'..."
 
This talk of appraisals reminds me of a few years ago when I had some work and additions made to my wife's wedding ring... after the work we had the ring re-appraised - for insurance purposes. I was absolutely astounded at how high the number was (much higher than the original purchase price and the additional work)... Jokingly I asked the appraiser if he would buy it off me at that price... he laughed and said, "no, this value is just for insurance purposes". Then a little more seriously I asked if his shop would try to retail it for that (or close to) appraised value. He said "no way" and again repeated that the number was "just for insurance purposes only".

The whole process made no sense to me... completely arbitrary in my opinion.

My recent experience with Grundy special interest car insurance made much more sense... They simply asked what I thought each of my cars was worth and asked for good photos. I gave them numbers on what I thought it would cost to replace each car (and get one in similar condition). They agreed with my figures (hence the term "agreed value coverage") and so it went.
 
I don't understand the need for an appraisal if it's just between you and the insurance company. I can say my X is worth $100,000 and as long as I'm willing to pay $1,000/month premiums, why would the insurance company care what anyone else thinks the value really is? Is it that in the event of a total and claim the insurance company wants some proof that the remnants are worth something? They don't care I can assure you. Maybe AFTER a claim there might be dispute between what the value should be but that's a different story.
I guess what I'm saying is, like Jim, I did not need an appraisal with Hagerty but I was within the realm of market value, maybe that's the difference.
It's all academic, I like your car Peter, not sure I'd do one up exactly like it, but I really appreciate it. Wish mine were that pretty.
BTW my X carries just liability, if it gets smushed, I part it out and walk away, as long as I'm walking away, I win.
Here's my Opel GT that got wacked. Hagerty paid up fast and easy but it was underinsured, even though agreed value was almost twice what I paid for it. I could not replace it easily for the pay off. Hence the Midget.
opelbeforeafter.jpg
 
The whole process made no sense to me... completely arbitrary in my opinion. [/QUOTE said:
I just got off the phone with an automotive appraiser and I asked him what it takes to be an automotive appraiser. He said and I quote " Just put a sign out and call your self an appraiser" He went on to explain that there is absolutely no guideline or industry standard. And in not so many words said it is a B.S. industry. Rarely do they need to actually need to be called to do any real legitimate work like represent someone in a court case. And even then they can only render an opinion. It is up to the appraiser what type of approach they want to take in determining the value. Even the price guides that are out there have no standard other than to average the prices of public sales. All info that I was not aware of.....
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