Brake and clutch cylinder replacement

[Dr.Jeff]

Pacific Customs lists German Green Cloth Braided Brake Line Hose 5mm Inside Diameter For Reservoir To Master Cylinder. I have no experience with the company.

They have been around for a long time. I bought parts there in the past, when I still lived in SoCal. At one time there were a tons of "old VW" specialty suppliers around there. Generally good prices. If there aren't any places local to you (should be some in San Jose) and you have to order something to be shipped, then they are as good as anyone. The color of the hose is typically to identify the type of hose (material and/or the size) for different applications - gas, diesel, vacuum, brake fluid, vent, etc.

 

[Larry]

Over the years they used a few cool cars for Max; the Tiger, a Karmann Ghia, a Opel GT, and reportedly in the very first episode ever a Ferrari 250 Cab - but I never saw that one.

How could I forget that Opel GT... the 2nd exotic car I remember seeing as a kid.

I would not try to use the larger (7-8mm) hose on the smaller nipples (5mm). Either replace the nipples (on the master cylinder) to match the hose size, or get hose the same size as the existing nipples. However you are speaking of the reservoir nipple. Some reservoirs may(?) have a nipple size that is somewhere in between the two hose sizes? I only say that because it seems some vendors sell the same reservoir for both brake and clutch systems. But they don't always specify what size the nipple is. Measure the nipple on your reservoir and see how it compares to the hose sizes. If there's a obvious difference then don't try it. But if it is close, then with new hose (soft and pliable), and the good clamps (like below), it might work. This is on the 'suction' side so it isn't quite as critical as say a fuel line. But you don't want brake fluid seeping all over the place. Or you could also replace the reservoir to match the larger hose and nipples on the master. The reservoirs get brittle with age and will crack and leak. So replacing them isn't a bad idea anyway.

As for clamps I like the "fuel injection" type:
View attachment 50177

I ordered hose clamps like that from MWB for the brake side. I'll get hose clamps like that for the clutch as well. I'm pretty sure the Clutch Reservoir was replaced. Although not in the time I've owned the car - just over 21 years now. But when I'm not driving it, it's a garage queen and I'm in Silicon Valley, CA so the garage never gets to any extremes of temperature which is what I assume is what causes the reservoirs to show their age?

At this point in the project, I would not reuse any of the old hose. Wait for new stuff to arrive. Hopefully a X1/9 isn't your daily driver anyway.

Technically it's not. With the lockdowns and a couple of other issues in 2020, it was driven maybe 500 miles last year.

 

[Larry]

Larry, you are in Santa Clara? Aren't there some VW specialty shops around there that still cater to the old air-cooled and other early VWs? They should have the hose.

That I am. I've been on the phone most of the afternoon. I just got off the phone a few minutes ago with A-German. They can get cloth braided hose 9.5mm OD, 5mm ID for $11.25 / foot (sold in meters only), but it's fuel line. My understanding is since it's a low pressure application it should work. Not that I'm "cheap" but that's a bit pricey and if MWB gets the hose back in again, the total cost would be $18.70 or about $35 including shipping. Another place, Peninsula Automotive Independent Volkswagen & Audi Specialists found 4.5mm ID but weren't too sure if they could get it. Would 4.5mm hose work?

A couple of other places I called could only look up with a part number - I'm guessing the cater to newer cars even though they have pictures of older VW's on the webpage.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Those hose clamps are available at any local parts store.

I was mostly referring to the old original reservoirs drying out and cracking. Good that your's isn't like that.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

but it's fuel line. My understanding is since it's a low pressure application it should work.

NO, do NOT use fuel line for the brake/clutch hoses. That will not work with brake fluid and it will destroy your new master cylinders quickly.

 

[Larry]

Pacific Customs lists German Green Cloth Braided Brake Line Hose 5mm Inside Diameter For Reservoir To Master Cylinder. I have no experience with the company.

Thanks. Not that I'm chicken - in addition to being cheap - but given how much fun this job has been, I'm not really looking forward to doing it again anytime soon. Unless someone in the community has had experience with them and liked them.

 

[ng_randolph]

That I am. I've been on the phone most of the afternoon. I just got off the phone a few minutes ago with A-German. They can get cloth braided hose 9.5mm OD, 5mm ID for $11.25 / foot (sold in meters only), but it's fuel line. My understanding is since it's a low pressure application it should work. Not that I'm "cheap" but that's a bit pricey and if MWB gets the hose back in again, the total cost would be $18.70 or about $35 including shipping. Another place, Peninsula Automotive Independent Volkswagen & Audi Specialists found 4.5mm ID but weren't too sure if they could get it. Would 4.5mm hose work?

A couple of other places I called could only look up with a part number - I'm guessing the cater to newer cars even though they have pictures of older VW's on the webpage.

You should not use fuel line; the material in most fuel lines does not stand up to brake fluid.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

The "green" hose that was linked earlier has a Continental part number in the listing: 203751. Try Continental is the major supplier for pretty much all German car hoses. So try calling around to parts stores and ask for that "Continental Hose #203751".

I'd buy from the VW parts suppliers like Bjorn listed.

 

[Larry]

Those hose clamps are available at any local parts store.

I've had no luck in most of the chain auto stores. But there are a few independent shops I can check.

I was mostly referring to the old original reservoirs drying out and cracking. Good that your's isn't like that.

Whew... I have various challenges with my car due to its high(er) mileage. The vagaries of having an X1/9 with 363,000 miles on it.

 

[Larry]

You should not use fuel line; the material in most fuel lines does not stand up to brake fluid.

Thanks. I appreciate the advice. I guess being cheap is a good thing at times.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I've had no luck in most of the chain auto stores.

Pep Boys should carry those clamps. They come in a few sizes so take an example with you.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Humm, I just looked up the Continental part number and most sources refer to it as vacuum or fuel hose. So I'm not confident it is brake fluid compatible hose. That is a common problem, even many of the suppliers do not know the difference.

 

[Larry]

They have been around for a long time. I bought parts there in the past, when I still lived in SoCal. At one time there were a tons of "old VW" specialty suppliers around there. Generally good prices. I

Thanks for the recommendation on the recommendation. I'll call around and ask about the Continental Hose #203751 and see what results I get.

f there aren't any places local to you (should be some in San Jose)

I've bought (I want to say FI hose) from A-German before - although I can't recall if that's what it was right now. I got some interesting looks when I pulled into the parking lot with my X1/9. There's a local Volvo shop that used to have almost any kind / size of hose but they don't stock everything and anything anymore.

and you have to order something to be shipped, then they are as good as anyone. The color of the hose is typically to identify the type of hose (material and/or the size) for different applications - gas, diesel, vacuum, brake fluid, vent, etc.

Thanks!

 

[Larry]

Humm, I just looked up the Continental part number and most sources refer to it as vacuum or fuel hose. So I'm not confident it is brake fluid compatible hose. That is a common problem, even many of the suppliers do not know the difference.

Thanks but also a bit scary at times that they or their sales and marketing departments don't know the difference. Saves me the trouble of looking. There's a place someone mentioned to me located back east that is supposed to be a good supplier but I can't think of the name off hand.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Sent you a PM

 

[DanielForest]

Thanks for the input about the Tygon hose. I looked at McMaster Carr and had no idea what I was looking for...

I had problem with the Tygone. They are easy to kink. But many others are using them and are satisfied. I prefer a more "robust" hose...

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I had problem with the Tygone. They are easy to kink. But many others are using them and are satisfied. I prefer a more "robust" hose...

It is very supple, which can be a good thing or bad thing depending on the specific needs.

 

[rx1900]

Sorry....I gotta disagree with much of what has been said here.....

On my '81 .... which I am 99% confident has the factory original hose , master, and reservoir.... and I believe all years are the same.....the clutch master...and clutch reservoir...have 6mm OD plastic fittings. See the pics below for proof....

The brake hose fittings measure about 7.8mm...so I would call that 8mm...although I suppose 7.5mm hose would fit okay....

I would suggest Larry that you measure - like I did - the OD of the nipples on your clutch master and reservoir !!! And go from there...

I am in the process of rebuilding the pedal box with new masters and hoses.

I needed some new clutch hose. By the way...I measured the old clutch hose to be about 45" in length.

I searched around for options and bought some hose from Eurosport UK:

X1/9 Reservoir Hose - 6mm (per 30cm) : Eurosport (UK), FIAT X19 Bertone & Lancia Montecarlo Beta Scorpion spare parts

Eurosport (UK) X1/9 Reservoir Hose - 6mm (per 30cm) - Low pressure EPDM hose designed for connecting hydraulic fluid reservoir to master cylinder. Now supplied unbraided in black with reinforced inner. This hose is 6mm internal diameter, suitable for all clutch circuits and 6mm brake reservoir...

www.eurosport-uk.net

Note that they too agree that the clutch hose for all X1/9s is 6mm ID....

The hose I received was very nice quality. Italian made and even stamped on the hose as being for brake fluid. 6mm ID 13mm OD. Black in colour but smooth as opposed to the original hose that had a braided cloth exterior. Which was okay be me...as the braided hose showed the dirt and was difficult to clean. The hose was supple but shows no tendency to kink at all...

I would suggest you get some hose from them

For some strange reason...I only have one X1/9....but bought 9 feet of the hose. Enough for 2 cars.

Larry. If...you are really stuck...or shipping from them is too high or would take too long....I could send you my extra 4 1/2 ft. But what with I paid in shipping, duties, taxes......and then shipping to you ( would be 3 days from here )..that would cost you about maybe $25 US or so. Contact me if you want....

Doug

 

[DanielForest]

Sorry....I gotta disagree with much of what has been said here.....

On my '81 .... which I am 99% confident has the factory original hose , master, and reservoir.... and I believe all years are the same.....the clutch master...and clutch reservoir...have 6mm OD plastic fittings. See the pics below for proof....
View attachment 50186
View attachment 50187

The brake hose fittings measure about 7.8mm...so I would call that 8mm...although I suppose 7.5mm hose would fit okay....


Doug

When I ordered a clutch master and a brake master from MWB, some different size nozzles were included. So I could use the one corresponding to my hose. So, in Larry's case, the PO may have used different sizes fittings, and different size hoses.

 

[Larry]

Sorry....I gotta disagree with much of what has been said here.....

I need to disagree. I appreciate you taking the time to measure it, but after double-checking the clutch master was 5mm.

But... before you respond, please read on...

On my '81 .... which I am 99% confident has the factory original hose , master, and reservoir.... and I believe all years are the same.....the clutch master...and clutch reservoir...have 6mm OD plastic fittings. See the pics below for proof....

pics deleted for brevity sake.

The brake hose fittings measure about 7.8mm...so I would call that 8mm...although I suppose 7.5mm hose would fit okay....

I would suggest Larry that you measure - like I did - the OD of the nipples on your clutch master and reservoir !!! And go from there...

I am in the process of rebuilding the pedal box with new masters and hoses.

I needed some new clutch hose. By the way...I measured the old clutch hose to be about 45" in length.

MWB states on their page for the replacement clutch hose, 5'. If it winds up being 45", then I'll lop off the excess.

I searched around for options and bought some hose from Eurosport UK:

X1/9 Reservoir Hose - 6mm (per 30cm) : Eurosport (UK), FIAT X19 Bertone & Lancia Montecarlo Beta Scorpion spare parts

Eurosport (UK) X1/9 Reservoir Hose - 6mm (per 30cm) - Low pressure EPDM hose designed for connecting hydraulic fluid reservoir to master cylinder. Now supplied unbraided in black with reinforced inner. This hose is 6mm internal diameter, suitable for all clutch circuits and 6mm brake reservoir...

www.eurosport-uk.net

Note that they too agree that the clutch hose for all X1/9s is 6mm ID....

The hose I received was very nice quality. Italian made and even stamped on the hose as being for brake fluid. 6mm ID 13mm OD. Black in colour but smooth as opposed to the original hose that had a braided cloth exterior. Which was okay be me...as the braided hose showed the dirt and was difficult to clean. The hose was supple but shows no tendency to kink at all...

I would suggest you get some hose from them

I would, but I bought 5' of extra hose from MWB - the 7-8mm - read on before responding....

For some strange reason...I only have one X1/9....but bought 9 feet of the hose. Enough for 2 cars.

And then some....

Larry. If...you are really stuck...or shipping from them is too high or would take too long....I could send you my extra 4 1/2 ft. But what with I paid in shipping, duties, taxes......and then shipping to you ( would be 3 days from here )..that would cost you about maybe $25 US or so. Contact me if you want....

Thanks Doug. I really appreciate the offer...

As I indicated above, I ordered 5' of 7-8mm hose on the off-chance that's what I needed. Winds up, that is what I needed *after* I made some additional purchases.

I picked up a new clutch reservoir from @Chris Obert 's FiatPlus.com. I called Chris and asked if he could measure it and he said it's 8mm. Plus, he stocks inlet nipples that are also 8mm. Chris' shop is a 30 minute jaunt from me so I went down on Friday and picked up a new clutch reservoir and inlet nipple plus a few more for the friend from Fiat America who has to do this same job to a couple of X1/9s as well.

I'll be replacing the clutch reservoir - huge thanks to @Dr.Jeff for his PM's and suggestions of replacing the clutch reservoir - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gone that route if he hadn't suggested it - and the inlet nipple on the master.