Budget hi comp high(er) hp motor build

Where I stand with the Booger

Finally got some garage time (first full week back to work and put in over 50hrs).

Anyways, engine runs. But that's about it. Hit the gas and it'll backfire thru the carbs. Found that connected throttle linkage was indeed holding carbs open a tad. Corrected and while I was at it, checked timing via cam pulley and flywheel. Set to approx. 12BTDC as per Allison's instructions. Engine fires up and I set rough idle to 700rpm per dizzy. Checked timing with a digital timing light on No#4 plug wire, no timing mark to be found. Tried swinging adv/ret setting on light +/- 20*, still nothing. OK, onto the next thing, attempt to set idle mixture screws, can pretty much move them from stop to 2+ turns out with nary a hiccup. Not sure where to go from here, I'm running out of ideas.

Anybody have any constructive input?
 
Since you checked the throttle linkage

Mike, maybe check that when the pedal is pushed all the way the throttles open fully. I've been caught out with this before thinking that the pedal movement and the throttle movement matched.

Of course do this when the engine is not running!

Cheers,

Rob
 
Carb linkage is disconnected

But thanks for the suggestion. Well my lack of technical expertise tantrum (towards myself) has passed. I missed a step in the chronological order I posted yesterday. Once I disconnected the throttle linkage AND backed the idle set screw all the way out, I was able to advance the timing enough so that when I hit the gas, there are no back fires. What concerns me now is the lack of adjustment with the idle mixture screws and it runs hot. Very hot. I'm thinking it's too lean

Gratuitous noisey video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCSIrARnNS8
 
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Mike,

jigging the throttle like that can't help anyone diagnose anything...your simply actuating the pump jets and not giving any indication of the idle circuit, transition or the carb balance.

You need to hold the engine at idle, and then very slowly and steadily raise the revs to about 2000 and hold there for maybe 10 seconds, then 2500 and hold, then 3000 and hold... then we might be able to help you diagnose the problem.

I've searched thru this thread, and it's very scattered and can't find the actual current specs of the engine (static CR / cam duration and lift / cam timing) or carburettor specs....

I have read that Matt rebuilt the carbs, but simply getting bounced around during shipping can alter the float levels...have you checked them? Is the manifold correct for the engine tilt of the X19?

Do you know the internal specs of the carbs?

Idle jet
air corrector jet
main jet
emulsion tube
aux venturi
main venturi
pump jet
pump cam
needle and seat

What ignition static advance do you currently have?

where is your cam timing set?

have you done a leak down test since your timing belt mishap? the reason I ask is that besides the obviously bent valves in that picture, it is also obvious that valve to piston contact occured with some of the other valves as well... did you remove them all and check that they were not slightly 'tweeked'? (mount in a chuck and put a dial gauge on the valve heads periphery while rotating them?)

I know you've had several changes along the way, and a couple of mishaps... last thing you want is to overheat or damage the thing before you get a chance to drive it!

Is the cooling system bled entirely of all air?

Nothing simple like a slipping w/pump drive belt?

SteveC
 
I'll try to answer your questions the best I can and in some sort of order..

The engine is a 3+ year project that has gone under several reiterations. As it stands right now:

1500cc carb block with deck milled (planared)
ported and polished 1500 head, decked flat
Race cam (mfg and configuration unknown. Some sort of one off from Matt B.) valves are stock w/ heavy duty springs and Miller's Mule adj, cam pulley.
dual DCNF 40's. Rebuilt by Midwest-Bayless (jets/emulsion tube sizes unknown). Rebuilt with instructions to suit this engine configuration.
Long tube exhaust manifold
Pistons are in the 9.5:1 range
SCAT H-beam rods
crank journals are polished and flywheel lightened to 10.5# (crank/flywheel balanced as a single unit.)
Allison distributorless ignition


Timing is set for 0* at crank and 0* at cam (via adjusting cam pulley). dizzy is set for approximately 12* BTDC per Allisons instructions. When running, lowest possible rpm is about 1,000rpm. The timing mark at crank shows 5* (first notch). This is with timing light attached to #4 plug wire. With these settings, engine is responsive as you see in the video. As for idling, this is with throttle linkage disconnected and idle set screw backed off completely. Also note, I have not visually checked the carbs to see if the butterflies are slightly ajar. I know I have a slight vacuum leak on the #3 and #4 carb intake to head (verified by hitting area with starting fluid and rpm dipped.

Temperature issue is probably caused by me. I have a leak at the top radiator hose (front pass side) thanks to ebay silicon hoses. I'll swap them out with oem rubber hoses and recheck. Quick question, I'm running straight water (it had water wetter in it, but alas the leak). Should I continue using water or just throw some anti freeze in it? This is a non street legal race car, and will not have coolant in it over the winter. I'm sure timing and carb imbalance can contribute to heating issues as well.

Well, thats my story. any help would be greatly appreciated




Mike,

jigging the throttle like that can't help anyone diagnose anything...your simply actuating the pump jets and not giving any indication of the idle circuit, transition or the carb balance.

You need to hold the engine at idle, and then very slowly and steadily raise the revs to about 2000 and hold there for maybe 10 seconds, then 2500 and hold, then 3000 and hold... then we might be able to help you diagnose the problem.

I've searched thru this thread, and it's very scattered and can't find the actual current specs of the engine (static CR / cam duration and lift / cam timing) or carburettor specs....

I have read that Matt rebuilt the carbs, but simply getting bounced around during shipping can alter the float levels...have you checked them? Is the manifold correct for the engine tilt of the X19?

Do you know the internal specs of the carbs?

Idle jet
air corrector jet
main jet
emulsion tube
aux venturi
main venturi
pump jet
pump cam
needle and seat

What ignition static advance do you currently have?

where is your cam timing set?

have you done a leak down test since your timing belt mishap? the reason I ask is that besides the obviously bent valves in that picture, it is also obvious that valve to piston contact occured with some of the other valves as well... did you remove them all and check that they were not slightly 'tweeked'? (mount in a chuck and put a dial gauge on the valve heads periphery while rotating them?)

I know you've had several changes along the way, and a couple of mishaps... last thing you want is to overheat or damage the thing before you get a chance to drive it!

Is the cooling system bled entirely of all air?

Nothing simple like a slipping w/pump drive belt?

SteveC
 
BTW, I can now adjust the idle mixture screws and get the engine to bog down when all the way in. Runs better after 1/2-3/4 turns. Also, I've noticed no black smoke at all during the entire engine run up. Personally I think its on the lean side.

The engine is a 3+ year project that has gone under several reiterations. As it stands right now:

1500cc carb block with deck milled (planared)
ported and polished 1500 head, decked flat
Race cam (mfg and configuration unknown. Some sort of one off from Matt B.) valves are stock w/ heavy duty springs and Miller's Mule adj, cam pulley.
dual DCNF 40's. Rebuilt by Midwest-Bayless (jets/emulsion tube sizes unknown). Rebuilt with instructions to suit this engine configuration.
Long tube exhaust manifold
Pistons are in the 9.5:1 range
SCAT H-beam rods
crank journals are polished and flywheel lightened to 10.5# (crank/flywheel balanced as a single unit.)
Allison distributorless ignition


Timing is set for 0* at crank and 0* at cam (via adjusting cam pulley). dizzy is set for approximately 12* BTDC per Allisons instructions. When running, lowest possible rpm is about 1,000rpm. The timing mark at crank shows 5* (first notch). This is with timing light attached to #4 plug wire. With these settings, engine is responsive as you see in the video. As for idling, this is with throttle linkage disconnected and idle set screw backed off completely. Also note, I have not visually checked the carbs to see if the butterflies are slightly ajar. I know I have a slight vacuum leak on the #3 and #4 carb intake to head (verified by hitting area with starting fluid and rpm dipped.

Temperature issue is probably caused by me. I have a leak at the top radiator hose (front pass side) thanks to ebay silicon hoses. I'll swap them out with oem rubber hoses and recheck. Quick question, I'm running straight water (it had water wetter in it, but alas the leak). Should I continue using water or just throw some anti freeze in it? This is a non street legal race car, and will not have coolant in it over the winter. I'm sure timing and carb imbalance can contribute to heating issues as well.

Well, thats my story. any help would be greatly appreciated
 
I can't give too much technical advice but I can share that I was stabbing in the dark as well with my dual DCOE's until I installed a wide band AFR gauge in the car.

An absolute must for tuning dual carbs if you don't already have one.

My :2c:
 
I can't give too much technical advice but I can share that I was stabbing in the dark as well with my dual DCOE's until I installed a wide band AFR gauge in the car.

An absolute must for tuning dual carbs if you don't already have one.

My :2c:

It's my next purchase ;)
 
Wide and

What are your readings on the wide band. I just put one in and am getting between 13-14 at idle, and 12s at higher rpm.
 
More steps forward today

Solved the temp issue. Silicon hoses wont work in this set up. Swapped out the rubber oem ones and burped the system. Temp was steady at 190* even at extended 2,000 rpm.

And onto the next step, adjusted carb vacuum so that both sets are balanced, just need to balance them across all 4. did minor adjustments to the timing, I think its at about 19* BTDC at 2k rpm. Whats baffling is the baffle. I put on the Supertrapp baffle and everything started to behave alot better. I'm assuming the back pressure is really needed. I also got to adjust the idle mixture screws a bit. They are at 1 turn now. All in all, it;s alot more responsive to throttle input.

I still have alot to do, but this progress is encouraging. Almost ready for a wheels down test run!
 
Docpan, those numbers aren't bad

You certainly don't want high RPM lean out, you'll melt a piston in no time.

12s is in a good range for high RPM.
 
You also have to remember...

The magical 14.7 is at sea level. So the higher the elevation, the lower the number can be. But yeah, 12's look good.
 
That sounds great

It's always a good feeling to get the rubber to the road, good luck with the tuning.
 
more progress this past week or so.

I've been travailing alot with work, but have been able to work on things a bit. Still have a slightly high idle, but I can live with that. Cant seem to get it below 1k rpm.

Also, I cant seem to get it into reverse (I know, not needed for racing, but necessary for getting it out of the garage). Stick is cranked hard to the right and the best I can do is 3rd/4th. If I try to force it farther to the right, I hit metal. It'll get sorted out, but if anybody has any ideas, it would be greatly appreciated. FYI, this is a a 79, but I put the longer shift rod in from a 85 and has a lollipop.
 
When it's in 3rd or 4th...

...check under the car and see if the shift rod is jammed up against the tube where it exits the body.
 
...check under the car and see if the shift rod is jammed up against the tube where it exits the body.

I'm a dummy. I put the longer bolts in the tunnel side seatbelt (harness) mounting holes. It was hitting the bolt. All set.

That being said...


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And first race is in the books!

What a day, torrential downpour midway thru the race, Soaked everything. After it stopped, we went back out. Car is F'N awesome! Some small tuning issues I need to work out with the engine, clutch and handling. Definitely putting a lot more power to the wheels, and I wasn't even getting on it! Definitely workable. Came in 6th out 8 eight in my group. .5 seconds separated me from 2nd place and I was only 5.5sec from FTD. Not bad for its first showing.

And here's some pics.

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Looks great!!!
Great to see you sorted out your carb tuning issues. In summary what did you end up going with spec. wise (i.e head, crank, pistons, compression, camshaft, ignition system)for your budget build? I'm sure you mentioned it in your pages of threads but I thought just asking may be easier.

Keep up the amazing work!
 
Looks great!!!
Great to see you sorted out your carb tuning issues. In summary what did you end up going with spec. wise (i.e head, crank, pistons, compression, camshaft, ignition system)for your budget build? I'm sure you mentioned it in your pages of threads but I thought just asking may be easier.

Keep up the amazing work!

Hey Pete, thanks! Carbs still need some fiddling as it floods off throttle. It ran very strong tho. As far as engine work, this is the list:

1500cc block, decked (planared). SCAT H-beams conn rods, 9.5 CR (?) pistons. Balanced and polished crank (balanced with lightened flywheel). Ported and polished decked head. Cam is a special from Matt. Dual webber DCNF 40's. long tube header.

There may be more, but my brain is fried.
 
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