Preparing For Dallara Body Kit

lookforjoe

True Classic
Flight was cancelled due to weather at MCO. Just as well, there were really heavy thundershowers when our flight was supposed to depart NY, that would have cancelled the flight from this end. At least we didn't ahve to sit for hours in the airport. New flight at 6:30 AM.

So, I took some daylight pics to evaluate overall state of 1st coat & peel. Not too much dust/bugs, actually. After taking these pics, I spent most of the day sanding the clear on the body. I used 1000grit. Used my palm for most of it, except the few flat areas where I used a thin flexible block. I tried to keep a "X" pattern to the sanding, to avoid 'fingers' in the sanded finish. Looks much flatter than this now. Using a spray bottle to mist water while sanding, and wiping the panel clear right after made it easier to see the worst remaining peel, as those areas remained glossy. I figure if I get most of it out, I can deal with whats left after the next coat, so I don't remove too much clear.

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Found some areas I missed - lower front of fender has mimimal clear
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Lower forward area below duct has no clear (not visible). Passenger side had less peel to address. Color cast variances are just from the light.

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little saggy at base of "A" pillar
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Both doors have heavy orange peel, but not worse than the panels I already sanded, so maybe a coule hours work each.

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After I get back next Friday, I'll sand the doors & put them back on the car so I can shoot the next clear coat. Put some fine filler where the heavy runs are so I can also cut those back.
 
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TonyK

True Classic
Normally I paint the doors and hoods flat. Base coat left to right then another coat up and down( forward and back) Although the clear can start to dry out on you what I do is put 2 coats of clear on, let get tacky between coats and then on the 3rd coat add a bit of thinner. The first 2 coats act like a sponge and let the 3rd thinner coat flow out. When painting this way it is important not to push the paint out too fast. Many clear coats may go on a bit to dry but after 5 minutes flow out. If you push the paint to a flowing gloss right from the start and it begins to flow out runs or sags will occur. With the hood and doors flat this will stop part of this from happening and after a day or two you can cut and buff it. I have let my son's car sit for 3 months then did a cut and buff, the cutting was more difficult as the paint was harder. Expect to spend about 40 hours on an RX7 sized car to get it the way you want it. Here is a link to a play list of that restoration, there are a lot of video's in the list but the painting can be seen in about 4 or 5 video's. I rented a booth that has the baking option and it was very reasonable.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuP0Xep9CQZubOLUI9m9O82GXheotLIPt


TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
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Huey

True Classic
Another tip I find helpful. Add a few drops of liquid dish detergent to the water bottle for wet sanding. The detergent will help lubricate the sand paper and makes easier work of it.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Normally I paint the doors and hoods flat. Base coat left to right then another coat up and down( forward and back) Although the clear can start to dry out on you what I do is put 2 coats of clear on, let get tacky between coats and then on the 3rd coat add a bit of thinner. The first 2 coats act like a sponge and let the 3rd thinner coat flow out. When painting this way it is important not to push the paint out too fast. Many clear coats may go on a bit to dry but after 5 minutes flow out. If you push the paint to a flowing gloss right from the start and it begins to flow out runs or sags will occur. With the hood and doors flat this will stop part of this from happening and after a day or two you can cut and buff it.
TonyK.
Grimsby Ontario Canada.

Thanks Tony. I realized watching your video that I made a mistake painting the pillars - I stopped at the base of the pillar instead of running in to the fender cap - which would likely have prevented the sag I got there.

I did also see that you spray much further from the panels than "The Gunman" whose videos I have been watching for tips. I was using his distance, pressure & fan settings, which seemed to work well (besides where I overlapped too heavy). What fan & pressure settings do you use? The 2K clear I'm using is recommended 2:1 + 10% reducer, which I assume is pretty much standard?

I'll likely finish the hood & doors flat. It really is easier to lay the paint on that way, I just tend to get more bugs/dust when its not vertical. The only areas on the body with dust/ bugs are the fender flares.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Another tip I find helpful. Add a few drops of liquid dish detergent to the water bottle for wet sanding. The detergent will help lubricate the sand paper and makes easier work of it.

Thanks Huey. I did that while sanding initially, and then forgot yesterday. It did seem to help the paper not 'catch' across the surface. The first time I did it (when sanding the base), I must have used too much as even after washing down the panel, and using prep-solv, I still got a couple small 'fish eyes' that I had to sand out
 

stingray250

True Classic
Gotta give you props... Paint curve was not something I was willing or wanting to learn. From what I've been able to ascertain in speaking with several painters is this. Hoods and doors are mainly painted by hanging them. The rationale behind this is that if there is any trash floating around, it is less likely to land on a hanging panel vs a flat one. Less time in cutting and buffing. Now if you are planning on "flow coating" the base and clear, then you probably want to lay it flat. I tell ya, the last thing I wanted to do was sand on my car for another two weeks AFTER paint. Hence paying to have mine painted. Lookin good though.
 

TonyK

True Classic
Thanks Tony. I realized watching your video that I made a mistake painting the pillars - I stopped at the base of the pillar instead of running in to the fender cap - which would likely have prevented the sag I got there.

I did also see that you spray much further from the panels than "The Gunman" whose videos I have been watching for tips. I was using his distance, pressure & fan settings, which seemed to work well (besides where I overlapped too heavy). What fan & pressure settings do you use? The 2K clear I'm using is recommended 2:1 + 10% reducer, which I assume is pretty much standard?

I'll likely finish the hood & doors flat. It really is easier to lay the paint on that way, I just tend to get more bugs/dust when its not vertical. The only areas on the body with dust/ bugs are the fender flares.

I can tell you this about painting cars, there is no correct way to do it. The Lamborghini is painted with 2 painters, one does the inside panels and the other does the entire outside of the car. The reason for this is primary when you paint metallic finishes. Each painter has his own style and the metallic will lay differently on the body of the car. By giving a bit of distance between the panel and the nozzle it allows the paint to lay the metallic down in a more even pattern. It prevents racoon tailing. Although a solid colour paint does not have this problem it does have the problem of still not allowing the paint to have an even coat. Pressure when painting the base is about 30 PSI and the Clear is about 35 PSI. I am using an Eastwood Concors gun. I want to see a fan of about 6" to 8" to allow the paint to cover each pass evenly. I want to do a half lap of each pass to allow this to happen. The application of the paint on the RX7 did not yield any runs and 3 coats of clear were put on the car. The 2:1 + 10% is standard for the clear but if after the 2nd coat you have some dry spots add a little more solvent to the final coat. Possibly 15%, do not push the paint but allow time for the thinner to soak into the 2 other coats and flow out. The intent here is not to pile on paint but rather apply an even coat of paint to the point where it holds and flows. Over the years the paint has changed a lot so the way it is applied takes some trial and error but it is better to put on 3 light coats and add a 4th with more thinner than to pile on the clear in 2 coats and have runs all over the car body.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 

Huey

True Classic
I'm convinced that painting can't be taught, it has to be learned by doing. Like TonyK said, each painter has their own style and we all just get a feel for what our gun is doing. Painting metallic is more difficult, especially silver since most silvers consist of heavy metallics. Every time I have ever painted silver, I ended up with striping. The hardest part of painting -- for me -- is the base coat because it is the one that has to be spot-on perfect. Primers and clear coats can be corrected with wet sanding but there is no easy fix for mistakes in the base coat.

I had a difficult time with the black on my X mostly because of lighting. If I were to do it over again, I would add some portable work lights so I can more clearly see what I'm doing. I discovered a run in the base coat near the rocker panel after I cleared it. I didn't notice it before because it was too hard to see.

Also -- and some people may argue with me -- but per my experience, there is no substitute for a good spray gun. It is one of those things that you get what you pay for. I had a couple of "decent" ones but then I splurged on a nice Devilbiss and wow, what a difference!
 

Mechanogeek

True Classic
I'm convinced that painting can't be taught, it has to be learned by doing.

I'd like to share one of my favorite quotes (No idea who first said it): Experience is a hell of a teacher. She gives the test first, and the learning afterwards.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
When you guys say ‘cut & buff’ that refers to the use of compounds for the finish, correct? Not levels of sanding?

If so, do you have recommendations for (not crazy expensive) ‘kits’? I lean towards 3M products. I see that there are several lines that typically include 3stage products. Some comments refer to only use on new paint, etc., so want to be careful with what I use at that point.

Also recommended pads to use with them (linen, foam, etc., diameter ?) see many options and conflicting comments. I’d assume 5” or smaller just because of panel size & lack of flat expanses. Not forgetting my fenders are less flat than stock.

Thanks for any tips.
 

Huey

True Classic
It depends on how much you want to spend. I have this kit, which works great but it is a little large for some of the areas on an X1/9. So I bought a 5" buffer with a variety of pads on eBay. As for compounds, I've mainly used Meguiars products, which work great. 3M products, I'm sure, are just as good. If you wetsand all the way up to 2000 grit then you can start with a mild compound or polish. If you stop sanding below that, you will want to start with a more aggressive compound.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Ordered a 5" orbital sander with a range of pads last night.

Spent the morning and early afternoon further sanding the hood & body. Got rid of a bunch more orange peel. Around 2:30 I was able to shoot the hood with base & used what little was left to do the panel between bay & trunk.

After that, I shot the body & rockers with another coat of clear. Was super clean when I prepped it, but still ended up with a bunch of dust in the fender flares :(

Much more sanding on the fenders and sails next to get rid of the dust.

Have to do a bunch of work at my Mum's house the next couple days, so I'll get back to this on Tuesday.

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More orange peel on the back panel, and a new run

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While that was drying, I shot the hood with a coat of clear, and one more coat on the rocker trim. Did a second coat of clear on the hood around 6:30.

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This is the 3M (G15) yellow I'm going to use for the Dallara stripes

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sub-zeroil

True Classic
i dont know whats the prices over where you are but in florida i rented the paint booth for the weekend for 150$ i did all the body work at home

but paint in the booth , it will save you a lot of hours in the long run , and there is always someone in the body shop that will show and help so thats a +.
 

sub-zeroil

True Classic
and btw by the pic i see looks like its so hot outside the paint is already dry when its coming out of the gun , you need to spray at night or early in the AM.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
i dont know whats the prices over where you are but in florida i rented the paint booth for the weekend for 150$ i did all the body work at home

but paint in the booth , it will save you a lot of hours in the long run , and there is always someone in the body shop that will show and help so thats a +.
and btw by the pic i see looks like its so hot outside the paint is already dry when its coming out of the gun , you need to spray at night or early in the AM.

Yeah, no booths for rent around here. I'm basically done now, so I'll just keep at it. The temps were high 80's today. Which pic are you referencing? The paint was going on fine today - didn't seem to have any clear coat flashing issues that I was aware of.

EDIT: I see the spoiler ridge looks 'dry' in one of the pics - if that's what you meant, that is just becuase I had trouble getting the gun in there at the correct angle. I need to revisit that area for better coverage.
 
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81x

X'ing Fixing
If you meant that dust was flying from the ground and stick to your flares, you might want to wet it with a lot of water before painting.
That will prevent dust from lifting to the panels.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
If you meant that dust was flying from the ground and stick to your flares, you might want to wet it with a lot of water before painting.
That will prevent dust from lifting to the panels.

I did that - it was all wet from the sanding :). I'm thinking it was just particles on the brown paper over the Frunk & engine which I didn't change or recover after the previous painting & sanding. I'll refresh that before I do the final coat.
 
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lookforjoe

True Classic
Forgot to take a pic of the hood as it stands - has two coats of clear. Need to sand it back to remove the peel, and then clear again

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lookforjoe

True Classic
Had a few hours today to work on the X (in the rain) - so I got the dust sanded out with 1000 grit on the fenders, 1/4s, sails and upper nose. Not as hard or as bad as I thought. Thinking I should shoot one more clear coat on the fender skirts. That and the hood. If I add more reducer it will level the final imperfections better, if I understood correctly.


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Since it was raining, it made it easier to keep the hood wet for sanding :D

Before sanding, has two coats clear
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this was after 1000 grit

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and then after 1500. Hope it looks this good after final clear & polish :)

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