Preparing For Dallara Body Kit

lookforjoe

True Classic
EDIT: Since the PB debacle, I have been gradually adding back all the pictures that I can. It is difficult in many cases to ensure the order. All the coilover construction pics are gone :(

EDIT: My front panels installation starts here (July 2016)
Rear Panel work starts here (Sept 2016)

Primer and Paint work starts here (July 2018)

Dallara Stripes here (Mar 2020)

I have the Dallara kit on order (Rcvd. 04/2015).

Related/reference threads so far:

Restoration Inspiration Dallara Kit For Sale..? What's involved in fitting Dallara Kit?

Racheljf's Dallara blog

Racheljf's Dallara Blog II

Strut Info needed DIY Coilovers

My Coilovers (credit to Doug)

Coilover install/test fit (Sept 2016) - Jovani's Ford Strut Mount Install KYB SM5607 or similar

EDIT: Newer thread with more pics from DallaraX1/9

EDIT: Thread discussion on Prototipo / Dallara Headlamp Conversion

EDIT: Headlamp (79 Bronco 6052's) Starts HERE

I'll use this thread to determine/document all the odds & ends I need to resolve for the install.

My main concerns right now are finding wheels that will work well, whether custom (DiamondRacing, etc) or Honda aftermarket, etc that are readily available, and figuring out the correct spacers based on that.

EDIT: Used 15x8" zero-offset Corsa XR wheels from VickAuto, with hubcentric rings for the front (58.1 bore, 73 OD) and 1.5" hubcentric spacers for the rear. 225/45x15, 205x50x15 tires

EDIT: Alternate wheels - Rota "Kensei" zero-offset 67.1 bore 15x8 & 15x9 (requires 4x100 adaptors or wobble bolts)

I've messaged a few folks that I found with Dallara type body kits to hopefully get some specific wheel/spacer info based on their experience.

I'm going to do DIY coilovers, based on and with info provided by Doug (rx1900). Using Bilstein B8's # 34-184530
& QA1 2.5" ID - 140/250 10" progressive springs ( QA1-10-140-250 from Summit Racing )
Rear springs replaced with QA1 175/350 12" for K24 conversion (Oct 2018)

I'm trying to wrap my head around the permutations that arise with varying wheel offsets and backspacing, the relationship of the two, and how to do the math to figure all that out. I hate math. It doesn't come readily to me, so what may be an obvious computation for many requires pictures, diagrams charts, etc., for it to make any sense to me.

Charlie (Serpent Auto) suggested I stick with 4bolt - 4bolt spacers. I had asked him about the feasibility of going from 4x98 to 5x108 (to possibly use Volvo wheels :nuts:) So if not custom wheels from Diamond or similar, then likely 4x100 to take advantage of all the Honda stuff.

Problem with that is the lack of dish on FWD based offset wheels.

Matt's backspacing recommendations:

"Regarding the wheels.

Front: 15x7 - 87mm backspacing. 195/45/15 or 195/50/15 tire.

Rear 15x9 - 100mm backspacing with 225/45/15, or 245/40/15"

Some diagramatic examples:

Example of offset permutations on Diamond's website:

So, any input would be most appreciated!
 
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rx1900

1981 X1/9
Reply

Hey Hussein. Well you certainly have another big project on your hands. But I've seen your determination and abilities here before, so I'm sure you are up to it !!

As for wheels/offset - I can help you out a bit there. There are a lot of variables here, and lots of choices. I guess FIRST you gotta decide on basic tire sizes, then get the wheels and/or spacers to suit.

I would suggest something in the order of a 195-205 wide tire in the front, and maybe a 225-235 wide tire in the rear. Probably try to stick with tires with an OD of 21"-22.5".

As a rough guide:
195 tires need a wheel width of about 7"
225 tires need a wheel width of about 8"
245 tires need a wheel width of about 9"

Then you need to get wheels/and or spacers to give you the offset you need to fill out the Dallara flares. I'm sure you will agree it would look rather dumb if the wheels didn't stick far enough out.

So going - for now as a good guideline using Matt's specs - the wheels he suggests translate as follows. Note the backspace he quotes are really sort of meaningless - it's really the OFFSET of the wheel that is important and determines the position of the tire.

The front wheel he quotes translates to an offset (the math is really quite simple) of about -14mm. Note most stock X1/9 wheels have an offset of about +25mm. So he has moved the centre of the tire OUT about 39mm from stock. Coupled with the increase in tire width that means the outside of the tire is now about maybe (compared to a 185 tire) 1.75" out further than stock. Probably about the same amount the fender is now flared out. So seems about right and makes sense.

So...ideally you should be looking for a wheel with about this offset. Which probably means a custom wheel. OR...a spacer as needed with another wheel. Assuming say a Honda wheel has an offset of maybe +40mm, then you would need a spacer/adapter about 60mm thick. That is assuming you will be removing the stock Fiat spacer. That's a spacer well over 2" thick. Personally I wouldn't be to keen on that...

In the rear, the math is similar. Matt's wheel translates to about a -27mm offset. Which means either that or about a 73mm spacer (almost 3")...

Hope this gives you a start of what to look for.....if my math is correct !!!

Doug
 

Brett

True Classic
I have same/similar need and...

For my Eurosport wide body kit, I'll have close to the same requirements. In the research I've done so far, the best option I've come up with is that 18racing.com will do custom orders, but they need at least three orders to do a custom run (I could do 2, so I can run street and track tires separately maybe, or be happy with one set maybe). In the sizes we need the best option that I came up with is the RKR
http://18racing.com/wheel_rkr.html
From an email I had with them, the offsets they can do are:
"RKR 15x8 only 0 but 15x9 we could do -15"
Note that's not quite enough, per Doug's handy figuring for us (and per my expectations). I figured to make up any remaining spacing requirement through the use of small(er) spacers or adapters. In that an order of these wheels is not cost-prohibitive and I haven's found a full-on custom wheel that is not cost prohibitive. And has a decent style for our cars. :)

Anyways, I'll be watching your progress and if you come up with a decent option, I'll be interested. Or let me know if you want me to get a current quote on what I had been chasing...
oh, and my tire choices were going to be along the lines of:
225/45/15 23” diameter, on 9” wheel
205/50/15 23” diameter, on 8” wheel

-Brett
 

Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Hussein... I HAVE YOUR WHEELS RIGHT HERE...

They even have a Volvo (Alfa, Lancia) 5 x 108 bolt-pattern you MUST have... sizes shown are 15 x 8 and 15 x 12. Find a way to make them FIT! They call them STR's...



Go here to order...

http://www.comp.co.uk/wheels/wheels.asp?section=str-62-17

(You ain't a REAL man unless you have these on YOUR Dallara... much like this guy who has them on his Stratos!)



If ya wanna keep your 4 x 98 Bolt Pattern with a great looking 4 spoke and 13 inch wheel... here is another alternative Compomotive offers. These are called TCA's or Targas, and I believe they made them in 7, 8, and 9 inch widths. Special order these days... Call or write them, tell 'um Tony sent ya!



(I really think these look great on a STOCK or FAZA-flared X1/9)
 

Mrxx19

True Classic
If a 15x8 +0 fits under stock fenders with a rolled lip, then it seems a 15x10 -20 or more would fit with a dallara body. Alternative is always using spacers. Can substitute the 15" with thirteen either way same width, at least without spacers.
195s fit under stock fenders too. If you are really tying to fill the wheel well properly I'd think a 245-255 in the rear would do.
I have no experience with the dallara kit but have filled many wheel wells.
 
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dcioccarelli

Dominic Cioccarelli
Maxilite

Mixilite in Switzerland do some nice aluminium reproductions of Cromodora wheels.

If you want to stick with 13" then here are a couple of nice options:

8x13, 4x98, ET 1-3

Fiat_CD66_mL8x13.jpg


7x13, 4x98, ET 10

Fiat_CD66_mL7x13.jpg


I personally think anything above 14" doesn't look very period, but I suppose that is a matter of taste.

Dom.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Thanks to all for the suggestions so far :grin:

I think I'm leaning towards less exotic wheels.

There was a nice set of Compomotive's being sold on a UK FB Fiat page, but the fella hasn't replied :sigh:

Doug found me a link to some nice 5 spoke 15x8's with zero offset. That will keep the spacer depth to reasonable proportions, I think.
 

rachaeljf

True Classic
If you have sourced a body kit from Europe, these build photos might be of use: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mvwu5j67a600eqe/AACDtJmasJG8HrAf5Y9nVwlXa?dl=0

For wheels, Matt's suggestion looks pretty good. The Dallara rear arches are a good inch wider than Eurosport rears.

Also, if you get a "proper" Dallara kit you will need to lengthen the wheelbase by around 20 mm. I did this by swinging the rear ball joints backwards in the wishbones - there are photos in the above album.

Cheers R
 

jjay911

True Classic
They do. Do you have specifics on either of those wheel sets? Or is it another case of Unobtanium?

Yea pretty much impossible to find. They are HRE 505. In fact HRE restored these wheels back in 2011 and were so impressed that they were 40 years old they decided to make a limited run of them again for the new Ferraris. Albeit in 19 and 20 inch size

These wheels started out life as 15x6 and I had a custom shop widen them with a 2 inch lip to make them 15x8s all around.
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Yea pretty much impossible to find. They are HRE 505. In fact HRE restored these wheels back in 2011 and were so impressed that they were 40 years old they decided to make a limited run of them again for the new Ferraris. Albeit in 19 and 20 inch size

These wheels started out life as 15x6 and I had a custom shop widen them with a 2 inch lip to make them 15x8s all around.

OK - so 15x8's worked OK, obviously - do you recall what size tire you used up front?

There are a variety of 15x8's I can go with, tire width seemed to be an issue, using 15x8..
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
If you have sourced a body kit from Europe,

For wheels, Matt's suggestion looks pretty good. The Dallara rear arches are a good inch wider than Eurosport rears.

Also, if you get a "proper" Dallara kit you will need to lengthen the wheelbase by around 20 mm. I did this by swinging the rear ball joints backwards in the wishbones - there are photos in the above album.

Cheers R
Thanks for the pics!

It's a US kit - doesn't attach to the fender inner edge, it is bonded to the outside:

dallara-fenderwork_zpsj8xdux9y.jpg


Which removes all the detail fitment issues I see with yours, but I guess makes alignment fiddly overall.

I have to look at the balljoint pics over - I can't tell what's different about the setup. :sigh:
 
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lookforjoe

True Classic
Just sayin'.:dance2:

Indeed :grin:

Seems finding tires in the same brand in appropriate sizes may be a problem :(

Going wider than 225/45x15's I see slicks, so these are close OD, but can't find same brand
 
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Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Summitracing.com has these that are real close...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/kht-33649/overview/

A Kumho street tire for 91 bucks, 225/50x15 and the same price for a 205/50x15 here:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/kht-33648/overview/

The difference between the 225/45 and the 225/50 is a little less than 1 inch in overall diameter or it sets the car maybe 1/2 higher than the other tire. There is hardly any other noticeable difference...

There are a few other choices of other brands but they can get very expensive. I also found the same type Kumho in a 195/50x15 which may be more to your liking up front. They run a bit less than $80 I think.

BUT... I would expect from YOU to add 2 more inches to each fender's width and go with 15 x 9's up front and no less than 15 x 12's in the rear!~

I'll help you find the correct width and tire to fit these wheels for ya as well as the backspacing and offset. Do I know how to spend your money and utilize all your time and talent... or what?

Like Matt's catch phrase about doing Fiat right... yours could be... Hussein's Insane Rides... "We do Dallara Right!"
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
Great minds think alike :rolleyes2: - I was just looking at

Screen%20Shot%202015-03-14%20at%2012.32.41%20PM_zps0bsqbqa2.png


205/55x15 & 225/50x15 - since they are identical OD - wasn't sure if almost 24" was going to be too much - but since I'll be building my own wheel wells, presumably that won't present an issue..

Doug found me a listing for a nice set of 5 spoke 4x98 15x8's with zero offset - so those wouldn't need crazy width spacers to fill out the arches.

EDIT: If those are too large OD, a suggested alternative is:

BFGoodrich g-Force Rival
Screen_Shot_2018-06-30_at_10.07.53_PM.png




EDIT:

Toyos? No personal experience with them...
 
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lookforjoe

True Classic
Ordered the Corsa 15x8, 0 offset 4x98 lug (73mm bore) wheels from Vicks.

DallaraSuspension00024.png


Ordered 205/50x15 & 225/45x15 (23.1 & 22.9 OD) BFG G-Force Rival S's from TireRack. Tires won't ship until after April 6.

I'm figuring (based on comments here) that I will wait to order spacers until I have the fenders set on the body, as I'm told there may be side to side width discrepancies in the rear.
Edit: issue is primarily with fore/aft spacing of the rear wheels in the Dallara fender.

Hopefully .5 -.75" Adaptor Spacers (58.3 inside/73mm outer lip) in front, and 1 - 1.25" spacers in rear. wheels should have a 4.5" backspace (zero offset, have to check this). Might go with 4x100 conversion, since these wheels have both lug patterns

EDIT: Stock hub centering lip is 58.1. MWB has centering rings for 73.1 -> 58.1
 
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lookforjoe

True Classic
Looking at adhesives, I think I used a Lord Fusor two stage epoxy for the Serpent Auto spoiler. Looks like Fusor 116 which comes in a 300ml cartridge should do for bonding the Dallara panels to the cut bare body panels. I need to find out how much coverage that gives, and what the setup time is.
 

Black-Tooth

Tony Natoli
Glad you were able to find what you liked...

Hopefully there will be no REAL issues... I'm sure you can solve any with these wheels and tires though.
 
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