RevTek - Fiat x1/9 & More Classic Cars Video Series

GOOD driving at the Ring!

Bernice

Ulix said:
Here is the same event last year, now with our 1900ccm engine.
We built these engines together, but mine ingested a screw right away, ruining much of the engine, including the block.
That is why I haven't talked about it here yet.
I built up another one, almost ready to go back in the car.

Note also that by now, there are many more participants with track-ready old cars.
So it may not look as fast anymore, because others can drive and have good tires too. :)

That is me in the passenger seat.
Click to expand...
 
Motor ingesting a screw can happen in a variety of ways, from not being extremely careful with small bits near the air cleaner to screws working off the throttle plate.. which happens in NA-NB Miata modernly often. Precisely this happened to eye sore racing during a LeMons race and 949 racing.. during an endurance race event.
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Project Frankenmiata - Failure is ALWAYS an Option - MotoIQ

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Not just lose screws, ground electrodes from spark plugs can bust off causing remarkable internal damage.


Bernice



tvmaster said:
Ingested a screw? How does that happen? Like I said, I’m new to all of this...
Click to expand...
 
This video is years old now, remains one of the faves at the Ring.. gives some idea of what it's like to drive it and what is involved for the driver & car.


Bernice
 
Another Miata bash, all the people I know with Miatas, including me have never had any problem with ingested hardware.

As noted, if you are not paying attention, it's not hard to have some small item fall into the intake. With a carbed Fiat you have to be really careful when the carb is off the manifold as you have a nice opening to drop stuff into the intake manifold. If the carb is on and you are securing the air filter base it's not hard to drop retaining nuts and washers into the carb. Same goes for having the spark plugs out, four holes to accept small metal items. Broken electrode could happen to any motor.
 
42DCNF are flat top!
I had temporarily mounted the air box with bolts rather that studs.
One of the bolts worked loose. With the flat tops, it rolls around until it falls down the hole.
Other carbs with the wall around the hole are much safer that way.
Needless to say, this won‘t happen to me again.
 
For a normally drive-in public roads Miata NA-NB, the possibility of that throttle plate screw breaking off is not that high. For a Miata NA-NB endurance raced, odds of that throttle plate screw self ejecting or the throttle shaft cracking is much higher. This is due to the vibrations and related forces involved with endurance racing over the many hours of race motor duty. This IS a design problem with the throttle plate shaft and screw baked into this series of Miata.

Indeed broken off spark plug electrode can happen to any spark plug ignited motor. What can happen to the exxe or similar carb fueled fiat, the nylon prevailing torque nuts wear out (greatly reduced to no friction from the nylon ring) with folk insisting on re-using the oem hardware well past their best-by service life. The no longer prevailing torque nut vibrates loose, is then sucked into the engine.. producing the same extensive internal engine damage.

Point of these replies is the vast amount of damage a small metallic object can do to the innards of a petro engine. Nothing more, Nothing less.


Bernice


carl said:
Another Miata bash, all the people I know with Miatas, including me have never had any problem with ingested hardware.

As noted, if you are not paying attention, it's not hard to have some small item fall into the intake. With a carbed Fiat you have to be really careful when the carb is off the manifold as you have a nice opening to drop stuff into the intake manifold. If the carb is on and you are securing the air filter base it's not hard to drop retaining nuts and washers into the carb. Same goes for having the spark plugs out, four holes to accept small metal items. Broken electrode could happen to any motor.
Click to expand...
 
talking of ingestation this is what an infestation of mice can lead to....





chewed part way through one of the cam belts on my Alfasud. This was the damage after Istarted the car up and blipped the throttle...
 
I was helping a new friend sell her deceased husband's 124 spider. To find out why it would not run I was in the process of pulling off the air filter base and dropped a retaining washer into the primary barrel of the carb. Fortunately I heard it fall in or I would have been buying that car with a bum motor. No worries, I'll grab it with a magnetic pickup stick...except her husband had used stainless steel hardware here! Ever work at someone else's house and try to find tools, we did eventually get the washer out. This just reinforced the point that there are situations where you don't want SS hardware so you can retrieve them with a magnet.
 
Ulix said:
Here is the same event last year, now with our 1900ccm engine.

So it may not look as fast anymore, because others can drive and have good tires too. :)

That is me in the passenger seat.
Click to expand...

Well the extra weight won't help.... and the extra wind resistance from your beard probably slows Ralf down too.

I'd be interested in Ralf's impressions of the 1900 vs 1500.

I'll need to watch the video over a few times, maybe one without a passenger to gauge revs / speed thru varous sections, but it doesn't "look" as fast , (but with a passgenger I would expect that)

the engine certainly doesn't sound like it's pulling the same sort of revs it did.. .is the gearing / tyre size the same?

SteveC
 
fiatfactory said:
Well the extra weight won't help.... and the extra wind resistance from your beard probably slows Ralf down too.

I'd be interested in Ralf's impressions of the 1900 vs 1500.

I'll need to watch the video over a few times, maybe one without a passenger to gauge revs / speed thru varous sections, but it doesn't "look" as fast , (but with a passgenger I would expect that)

the engine certainly doesn't sound like it's pulling the same sort of revs it did.. .is the gearing / tyre size the same?

SteveC
Click to expand...
Steve,
the engine does pull the same revs as the 1500. It works from my point of view quite unspectacular and harmonic since it has a wide band of torque which has increased noticable - its no track-only car. What do you reckon, Ulix, you have made also some experience...
Tyre size is the same as well as gear ratio by the time of the video. Now the 5th is longer and next year an Uno Turbo ratio will be installed.
Unfortunately I have no compareable video to the 1500, since Ulix was all the time joining. Except one lap which I did not finish due to an ignition issue - but until the problem appeared it was my quickest Nordschleife-lap ever!
 
NEG said:
talking of ingestation this is what an infestation of mice can lead to....




chewed part way through one of the cam belts on my Alfasud. This was the damage after Istarted the car up and blipped the throttle...
Click to expand...

ouch, is that after the winter sleep restart you posted the other day?

I have lots of the early sud pistons / engine bits if thats a 1200.

SteveC
 
Last edited:
berserker0815 said:
Steve,
the engine does pull the same revs as the 1500. It works from my point of view quite unspectacular and harmonic since it has a wide band of torque which has increased noticable - its no track-only car. What do you reckon, Ulix, you have made also some experience...
Tyre size is the same as well as gear ratio by the time of the video. Now the 5th is longer and next year an Uno Turbo ratio will be installed.
Unfortunately I have no compareable video to the 1500, since Ulix was all the time joining. Except one lap which I did not finish due to an ignition issue - but until the problem appeared it was my quickest Nordschleife-lap ever!
Click to expand...

I actually meant it pulls "slower" which is why I asked about gearing ... it seems like it revs quite fast to 6/6500rpm, and then builds quite slowly after that in 4th/5th, whereas the 1500 seemed to rev quite quickly to 7500...(but the view of the tacho isn't as good)

Any other changes wih the increased capacity (carbs / cam / combustion chamber) what CR did you end up with

any idea of the relative weights of things like pstons / rods / crank / flywheel between the two engines?

I just watched the "test drive" video... and in that you must have the taller fifth installed, it settles into it's max torque peak quickly in fifth at around 5500rpm, and the speedo is pegged ... :cool: I can't do that on a public road here in Australa (not legally anyway)

SteveC
 
Last edited:
fiatfactory said:
ouch, is that after the winter sleep restart you posted the other day?

I have lots of the early sud pistons / engine bits if thats a 1200.

SteveC
Click to expand...

Hi Steve, no that was a few years ago. Waking the car up after a year of inactivity...hadn’t realised the mice had taken a liking to the car. I now use half a dozen traps in the garage to dissuade the little devils
 
fiatfactory said:
I actually meant it pulls "slower" which is why I asked about gearing ... it seems like it revs quite fast to 6/6500rpm, and then builds quite slowly after that in 4th/5th, whereas the 1500 seemed to rev quite quickly to 7500...(but the view of the tacho isn't as good)

Any other changes wih the increased capacity (carbs / cam / combustion chamber) what CR did you end up with

any idea of the relative weights of things like pstons / rods / crank / flywheel between the two engines?

I just watched the "test drive" video... and in that you must have the taller fifth installed, it settles into it's max torque peak quickly in fifth at around 5500rpm, and the speedo is pegged ... :cool: I can't do that on a public road here in Australa (not legally anyway)

SteveC
Click to expand...
The "Test drive" video was made directly after the longer 5th was installed indeed 😉

The rev performance in the upper area could be improved, right. Last years plan was to change the ignition to a programable one. Unfortunately other problems appeared: 5th gear lost teeth,header gasket,..). So its shifted to this year - hopefully.

What are the changes?
I would say nearly every part....
~300° cam
44DCNF
CR 11,3:1
Head with 40/35 valves
Piston,rods,flywheel lighter
More details are planned to be published in a seperate built- thread.
 
44 DCNF were used in a few Maserati & Ducati Paso motor cycle. Some years back there were a Pile of 44 DCNFs from Ducati Paso motorcycles. At that time, the 44 DCNF was too large a carb for that motorcycle as delivered oem. The accepted modification at the time was to remove the 44 DCNF, replace it with a 40 DCNF with a 32mm choke and matching jetting.

One of the twin carb options for the Lampredi TC planned for the Lancia are two 44 DCNF with 34mm chokes.
Spec's are similar to the SOHC engine you've created, but slightly lower compression of
~10.5 to 1 via custom Wiesco pistons
~Aftermarket lower weight con rods.
~300 degree cam.
~43.5mm intake valves, 37.5mm exhaust.
~Modified cylinder head ports.

Alternative twin carbs would be 45 DCOE with 36mm chokes, not sure which to set up for yet.


Bernice


berserker0815 said:
44DCNF
Click to expand...
 
Rupunzell said:
44 DCNF were used in a few Maserati & Ducati Paso motor cycle. Some years back there were a Pile of 44 DCNFs from Ducati Paso motorcycles. At that time, the 44 DCNF was too large a carb for that motorcycle as delivered oem. The accepted modification at the time was to remove the 44 DCNF, replace it with a 40 DCNF with a 32mm choke and matching jetting.

One of the twin carb options for the Lampredi TC planned for the Lancia are two 44 DCNF with 34mm chokes.
Spec's are similar to the SOHC engine you've created, but slightly lower compression of
~10.5 to 1 via custom Wiesco pistons
~Aftermarket lower weight con rods.
~300 degree cam.
~43.5mm intake valves, 37.5mm exhaust.
~Modified cylinder head ports.

Alternative twin carbs would be 45 DCOE with 36mm chokes, not sure which to set up for yet.


Bernice
Click to expand...
What fuel are you planning to use?
 
Highest octane pump gasoline. 11 to 1 is not an option given there is no electronic engine management or such.
About 10 to 1 is the highest static compression ratio I'm willing to risk.

Bernice

BEEK said:
What fuel are you planning to use?
Click to expand...
 
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