Stereo System Options

[dllubin]

Most of the products I see actually state the RMS and peak. But I guess the thing I wonder is how to know if a particular amp is actually what they say? How can you tell if the voltage has been converted higher? How can you trust their claimed output? Most products do not give much detailed information about such things, other than some basic "claims".

By the way, is the fact the older amps did not up the voltage the reason they were so robust compared to modern ones?

When I checked out some of the links in recent car stereo threads, I did not come across one RMS rating. They were all totally vague about the numbers posted. Two of the units showed the part number of the amplifier module. From that, you can download the datasheet and see what the part is capable of. Unless it is a high end unit from a quality manufacturer, the power numbers are likely to be extremely optimistic.

As far as the robustness of old amps goes, I'm not sure they would be any better than today's amps made by decent manufacturers. For one thing, power semiconductors have greatly evolved over the years. There is likely a higher level of integration today that would lead to lower part counts and less interconnect which should result in lower failure rates. There are also circuit topologies such as Class D amps that are much more efficient than the typical Class B amplifier. That can result in lower operating temperatures which will increase the lifetime of components in the system. I think that the real issue today is that it is much easier to sell garbage products over the Internet where the seller can be thousands of miles away from the customer and get away with it.

 

[X19e]

I'm already in love with this one: a Caliber RMD120DAB-BT-B. I need DAB+ radio plus Bluetooth and it offers both. Not sure if it is available worldwide, because I only found European shops, i.e. galaxus.de. This is a picture of the black chrome version.
Could it be more retro? See this flyer for more details: https://www.calibereurope.com/nlmedia/flyers/RMD120DAB-BT-B_flyer.pdf

Can we add recommended speakers, please? I'm dreaming of a Soundbar style that fits the complete wide of the car behind the seats.

 

[dllubin]

I'm already in love with this one: a Caliber RMD120DAB-BT-B. I need DAB+ radio plus Bluetooth and it offers both. Not sure if it is available worldwide, because I only found European shops, i.e. galaxus.de. This is a picture of the black chrome version.
Could it be more retro? See this flyer for more details: https://www.calibereurope.com/nlmedia/flyers/RMD120DAB-BT-B_flyer.pdf

Can we add recommended speakers, please? I'm dreaming of a Soundbar style that fits the complete wide of the car behind the seats.

It may or may not be a good unit but I think the 4 x 75 watt power rating is bogus. If it is using class B amplifiers the unit would need to be able to dissipate close to 300 watts in heat. It does not look like it is designed to do that. The other alternative could be that it uses a class D amp which is over 90% efficient. However, I think they would have advertised a feature like that and I don't see any mention of it.

 

[autox19]

I have been watching this thread and I feel I have somethings to say. My minor in college was in audio engineering. Mainly studied theater sound systems but a car can be a small theater. There is alot of talk about "watts" and such. I want to move this to looking at this like we look at our engines. Power from a head or amp, like an awesome carburetor is only one piece of the puzzle. Speaker quality, placement and enclosure can be seen as the pistons cams and exhaust. They compliment each other. While one may give you bang for the buck, because of the other parts you may end up getting less. Imo, and it's only an opinion, is put money first into the speakers, placement and enclosure. Enclosure efficiency has boomed over the past 20 years. I have a bose resolve I won at a Christmas party. 8 watts. It sounds better and louder than my old bose wave at 60 watts.
I too have been looking at a sound bar to use across the back. But all I am finding at this point is DC ones that are too small or AC ones that are right but I would have to figure out a step converter to get the power right. (The ac ones use a transformer to change it to DC, but the amps/voltage won't match using it straight from a car)
Getting the system to work together is the key if you are truly looking for quality. Having crappy amps control high end speakers usually destroys the speakers. Having an awesome amp drive crappy speaker usually ends up with crappy sounds. Having top end amps and top end speakers but 22 guage wires running 100 feet turns out to be a crappy system. My cheap self have found I get the most bang for the buck to me is putting speakers/placement/enclosures at the top of the list.
Another quick hit. Ohms. Best way to destroy an amp or speaker is to not have them both right. A 8 ohm amp running through 4 ohms (either single speaker or 2 8 ohm in parallel) will burn out the amp. Same 8 ohm amp running through 2 8 ohm speakers in series turns out to be 16 ohms and won't cause an amp issue but because it needs to work harder to push that power out It will also be (give or take) 1/3 as loud for the same amount of power (2x power is about 3db gain and 10 db is about twice as loud) Most amps have a lowest ohm it can handle. Don't go below that in your speaker system. You want the speakers to get to that lowest ohm to get the most power.
If you can't tell I can talk sound systems forever. Buy basketball is on (GO GREEN)

odie

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I'm already in love with this one: a Caliber RMD120DAB-BT-B. I need DAB+ radio plus Bluetooth and it offers both. Not sure if it is available worldwide, because I only found European shops, i.e. galaxus.de. This is a picture of the black chrome version.
Could it be more retro? See this flyer for more details: https://www.calibereurope.com/nlmedia/flyers/RMD120DAB-BT-B_flyer.pdf

Can we add recommended speakers, please? I'm dreaming of a Soundbar style that fits the complete wide of the car behind the seats.

View attachment 69455

Looks good.
America seems to be one of the few places that does not support DAB+ radio (as far as I know). I recall several years ago there was a push for a high definition "digital" radio system but it never caught on. Kind of the same thing with "satellite radio", it was marketed heavily for a couple of years but really hasn't gained much interest (perhaps other than with truckers?). Now with cell phones capable of streaming digital music from the internet and BlueTooth connectivity to a car system, there may not be much future demand for standalone hi-def radio?

I'm dreaming of a Soundbar style that fits the complete wide of the car behind the seats.

Several years ago there was quite a bit of discussion on Xweb about using a BlueTooth "bar" speaker from a home surround-sound TV audio system on the X's rear shelf. But I haven't heard much about that since.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I have been watching this thread and I feel I have somethings to say. My minor in college was in audio engineering. Mainly studied theater sound systems but a car can be a small theater. There is alot of talk about "watts" and such. I want to move this to looking at this like we look at our engines. Power from a head or amp, like an awesome carburetor is only one piece of the puzzle. Speaker quality, placement and enclosure can be seen as the pistons cams and exhaust. They compliment each other. While one may give you bang for the buck, because of the other parts you may end up getting less. Imo, and it's only an opinion, is put money first into the speakers, placement and enclosure. Enclosure efficiency has boomed over the past 20 years. I have a bose resolve I won at a Christmas party. 8 watts. It sounds better and louder than my old bose wave at 60 watts.
I too have been looking at a sound bar to use across the back. But all I am finding at this point is DC ones that are too small or AC ones that are right but I would have to figure out a step converter to get the power right. (The ac ones use a transformer to change it to DC, but the amps/voltage won't match using it straight from a car)
Getting the system to work together is the key if you are truly looking for quality. Having crappy amps control high end speakers usually destroys the speakers. Having an awesome amp drive crappy speaker usually ends up with crappy sounds. Having top end amps and top end speakers but 22 guage wires running 100 feet turns out to be a crappy system. My cheap self have found I get the most bang for the buck to me is putting speakers/placement/enclosures at the top of the list.
Another quick hit. Ohms. Best way to destroy an amp or speaker is to not have them both right. A 8 ohm amp running through 4 ohms (either single speaker or 2 8 ohm in parallel) will burn out the amp. Same 8 ohm amp running through 2 8 ohm speakers in series turns out to be 16 ohms and won't cause an amp issue but because it needs to work harder to push that power out It will also be (give or take) 1/3 as loud for the same amount of power (2x power is about 3db gain and 10 db is about twice as loud) Most amps have a lowest ohm it can handle. Don't go below that in your speaker system. You want the speakers to get to that lowest ohm to get the most power.
If you can't tell I can talk sound systems forever. Buy basketball is on (GO GREEN)

odie

That is basically what my friend with the custom stereo shop says - put your money in the speakers first. And design it as a complete matching system.

One thing that I feel might be difficult to do with a DIY home built system and installation is knowing how to get the most from the speakers; in terms of where to place them, how to enclose them, and how to match them to the specific car environment. To me that all seems to be "engineer" level knowledge that the vast majority of us do not have. In the past I tried to learn about such things but the more I read, the more it began to sound like a bit of black magic.

 

[dllubin]

Since the beginning of "hifi", the sage advice has been to give priority to the speakers since they are what your ears hear. The best electronics in the world will not make a low quality speaker sound good. There is an analog to this in the radio communications world that priority be given to the antenna. Pretty much the same issue as audio except at RF frequencies.

 

[autox19]

That is basically what my friend with the custom stereo shop says - put your money in the speakers first. And design it as a complete matching system.

One thing that I feel might be difficult to do with a DIY home built system and installation is knowing how to get the most from the speakers; in terms of where to place them, how to enclose them, and how to match them to the specific car environment. To me that all seems to be "engineer" level knowledge that the vast majority of us do not have. In the past I tried to learn about such things but the more I read, the more it began to sound like a bit of black magic.

Even with all the computer simulations. It is for sure a bit of trial and error. To me, I have never worried that much about audio in my car. If it is loud enough to drown me out when I sing, I am good lol. I will say the sub in the spare tire well in an x is tough to beat for location of a sub in there. The best one I heard had the sub there. Mids were driven by 4" in the doors and had tweeters in the windshield pillars.
I stand corrected. The best I have heard was one that had no stereo, but dual dcnfs

Odie

 

[JimD]

I will say the sub in the spare tire well in an x is tough to beat for location of a sub in there.

I never got around to installing one of those "pare tire" subs. I have 2 sitting on the shelf, so there is potential to finally accomplish the task.

 

[Bjorn Nilson]

I will say the sub in the spare tire well in an x is tough to beat for location of a sub in there. The best one I heard had the sub there. Mids were driven by 4" in the doors and had tweeters in the windshield pillars.

Yup, that's the way I would have built it as well if having audio in the car, but just like you I prefer to listen to the Lampredi singing in the X1/9.

 

[lookforjoe]

Putting a much more modern stereo head unit in the 740 - I'd never want this in the X1/9, though

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Putting a much more modern stereo head unit in the 740 - I'd never want this in the X1/9, though

View attachment 69483

When newer cars started mounting touch screen displays on the dash I did not like it. But as time has gone by and the dash displays have become more developed / refined / integrated, they are beginning to grow on me....for certain new vehicles with the right overall dash design. Especially on some EV's with basically no dash other than a large screen.

But I agree, I would not want this in a X. However it gives me an idea. In the "turbo X1/9" thread we discussed using a small tablet computer on the dash. By having it connected to the aftermarket/standalone ECU it will display gauges, log and analyze real time data, allow on-the-fly tuning, control boost, etc. IF one were to do that (for the sake of the turbo/engine management), then maybe it could also act as the entertainment control. By using it to play your music files through an attached amp and speakers.

 

[Lowtechprime]

Nice.That's the one I was talking about. The "tape opening"is in reality a hiding door for plugs, etc. Are you happy with it? It is on my wish list.

View attachment 69177

I got that same unit for the Wife's Z3 M Coupe, but haven't been able to get around to installing it yet .. It's a shame we can't use the DAB here, but I got it mainly for the flush fit in a BMW(no bezel), and the hands free/media options..+ the vintage look of course

 

[LarryC]

Welp, as I see it, the problem with touch screens in automobiles is that you are not cruising at 30,000 feet and have a few seconds to think about the next menus item. You need to be thinking about the road ahead plenty quick instead.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Welp, as I see it, the problem with touch screens in automobiles is that you are not cruising at 30,000 feet and have a few seconds to think about the next menus item. You need to be thinking about the road ahead plenty quick instead.

Very true, excellent point. I'll refer back to what I said earlier about a car stereo needing to have controls that you can touch and recognize by feel and not have to look at it. So in that respect any screen is a hindrance to driving. I guess I was commenting more on the appearance of a screen on a dash, without thinking about its function.

 

[Bryce-o-rama]

When newer cars started mounting touch screen displays on the dash I did not like it. But as time has gone by and the dash displays have become more developed / refined / integrated, they are beginning to grow on me....for certain new vehicles with the right overall dash design. Especially on some EV's with basically no dash other than a large screen.

But I agree, I would not want this in a X. However it gives me an idea. In the "turbo X1/9" thread we discussed using a small tablet computer on the dash. By having it connected to the aftermarket/standalone ECU it will display gauges, log and analyze real time data, allow on-the-fly tuning, control boost, etc. IF one were to do that (for the sake of the turbo/engine management), then maybe it could also act as the entertainment control. By using it to play your music files through an attached amp and speakers.

A friend put an aftermarket head unit into his 2011 F150, with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. It also can read various data from the truck ECU. So my friend now has a 0-60 timer, a boost gauge, etc. All of the gauges can be configured.

 

[Paul Valente]

If you don't want to cut the dash on 1300, you could get an 80's gooseneck Blaupunkt. Like the Dallas SQM88/Denver SQM108. Picture for reference. There are components to the system as well like a home stereo but you don't have to have them. CCP08 cassette shown but there is a DAT player and a CD player as well along with amps and equalizers.

 

[Jonohhh]

I got that same unit for the Wife's Z3 M Coupe,

Off topic, but what a lovely engine those have. I'd love to know what one is like without 3400lbs of convertible 3 series strapped to it, the only complaint about my e36M apart from the auto.

 

[KBabcock]

Welp, as I see it, the problem with touch screens in automobiles is that you are not cruising at 30,000 feet and have a few seconds to think about the next menus item. You need to be thinking about the road ahead plenty quick instead.

Agreed 100%, I hate it when automakers move too much control to the LCD. My current car has the perfect balance and ergonomics. Many functions on the screen but manuel controls I can adjust without taking my eyes off the road for items you use often (HVAC, Radio, ect...). Looked at a new GTI and their system is a nightmare, Germans have a problem with moving controls to a screen not because it's better but because they can.

 

[tvmaster]

Agreed 100%, I hate it when automakers move too much control to the LCD. My current car has the perfect balance and ergonomics. Many functions on the screen but manuel controls I can adjust without taking my eyes off the road for items you use often (HVAC, Radio, ect...). Looked at a new GTI and their system is a nightmare, Germans have a problem with moving controls to a screen not because it's better but because they can.

Honda as well. KIA on the other hand - loads of buttons and knobs