Timing Keeps Slipping

As much as you may want to go to the show, please don't drive it (or even run the engine any more than necessary), until you know the head gasket isn't blown. If water and oil are mixing it will ruin the rest of the engine. Hopefully you can avoid a complete rebuild this way.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
As much as you may want to go to the show, please don't drive it (or even run the engine any more than necessary), until you know the head gasket isn't blown. If water and oil are mixing it will ruin the rest of the engine. Hopefully you can avoid a complete rebuild this way.
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Dr. Jeff,
This is why I need to get it fixed and done right. Are you traveling this way anytime soon???
I will start the extensive troubleshooting effort tomorrow (I hope). Have to get my neighbor to assist. He is a master mechanic. He has three 1996 BMWs that he is constantly tearing apart and a 1995 GT Mustang convertible. All his cars are perfect mechanically.
Hope he will be willing to assist.
Mike
 
Just make sure "master mechanic" knows that synchronization of the crank to the cam uses cyl #4 as the reference and NOT cyl #1. And that the aux shaft that drives the dist and oil pump does NOT have a mark for a reason, because where that cog is in relation to the cam and crank cogs is immaterial.
 
Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
Just make sure "master mechanic" knows that synchronization of the crank to the cam uses cyl #4 as the reference and NOT cyl #1. And that the aux shaft that drives the dist and oil pump does NOT have a mark for a reason, because where that cog is in relation to the cam and crank cogs is immaterial.
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Dan,
Thanks... the TDC is something I learned the hard way. Weird that ours is no. 4 and not no. 1. The mark not being on the aux shaft is something new. I will ensure that he knows that information.
Thanks everyone. Wish me luck tomorrow.
Mike
 
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Sounds like you will be fine with the neighbor's guidance. If he can diagnose things and confirm where everything stands, then you can decide the next step.

The reason the aux shaft position does not matter is because it only does two things; drive the oil pump (and the position of that can be anywhere), and drive the ignition distributor (and the position of that is adjusted at the distributor itself - ignition timing). ;)
 
another test for blown head gasket, (funny using blown and head with my next comment)

take a rubber and fit it over the filler neck for the cooling system. start the engine, if the rubber blows up you have a blown head gasket.
 
Tavalin said:
The X1/9 build date is 2/86. I see four large bolts above the spark plugs. I am not seeing the four small bolts.
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On a 14-bolt head, the extra 4 small bolts are not "above" the spark plugs, they're right next to them. Here's a 14-bolt head with the 4 bolts highlighted by green arrows:

14bolthead4 copy.JPG
 
Okay, checked whether or not I have a 14 bolt due to my X1/9 having a build date of 2/1986 and it actually has a 10 bolt head. Does that mean that the engine is not original?
Tried to get a photo but could get that deep into the engine bay for a clean shot. There is absolutely no bolts under the spark plugs.
So makes me wonder if the engine was replaced and that is why I have anomalies with the sizing of bolts and nuts.
Anyway, I know what gasket I need if the head gasket is blown.
Mike
 
Mike, here is a pic of one of my 10 bolt engines. This is the side that would have the extra 4 bolts if it was a 14 bolt version. You can compare it to the pic JeffS posted and to your engine. This is a Calif spec '79 so it has a throttle cable bracket (partially obscuring one of the head bolts) for a carb, a plug on the head (silver looking) where some smog equipment used to be, and a extra temp sensor for the carb cooling fan (possibly other minor differences as well).

002.JPG
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Mike, here is a pic of one of my 10 bolt engines. This is the side that would have the extra 4 bolts if it was a 14 bolt version. You can compare it to the pic JeffS posted and to your engine. This is a Calif spec '79 so it has a throttle cable bracket (partially obscuring one of the head bolts) for a carb, a plug on the head (silver looking) where some smog equipment used to be, and a extra temp sensor for the carb cooling fan (possibly other minor differences as well).

View attachment 23945
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Dr. Jeff,
That is what I have except for the FI.
Well, at least I know now.
Thanks... going to start checking to see if it is the head gasket.
I know I need to replace the timing belt and tensioner so that will be where I start.
Mike
 
Sounds good. Be sure to double check the stud, clamp and nut that anchors the distributor. From what you described it seems it wasn't fully holding the distributor in place. Try spinning the nut all the way down the stud without the clamp in place, to see if the threads are good the full length.
 
Tavalin said:
Okay, checked whether or not I have a 14 bolt due to my X1/9 having a build date of 2/1986 and it actually has a 10 bolt head. Does that mean that the engine is not original?
Tried to get a photo but could get that deep into the engine bay for a clean shot. There is absolutely no bolts under the spark plugs.
So makes me wonder if the engine was replaced and that is why I have anomalies with the sizing of bolts and nuts.
Anyway, I know what gasket I need if the head gasket is blown.
Mike
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Just for S & G's I looked at the parts manual.

As far as I can tell by interpreting the info in the parts manual, the change (designated #8493) to a 14 bolt head came with motor number 5750182. My car is 06/85 production date and has motor number 56224xx (can't make out the last 2 digits in the available pics), and has 10 head bolts.

Apparently there was another change #8702 later on pertaining to the head bolts, starting with motor number 6007752, but from what's in the parts manual, it's hard to tell exactly what the change entailed.
 
I have two '85 engines (I would have to look up the actual production dates or engine numbers) that are both 10 bolt. Naturally my '79 is as well.

Could the later change (8702) have been to TTY bolts?
 
No, the change to "stretch" bolts was much earlier, I think it was change #6818 starting with motor #4037356. Here's the page from the parts manual, showing the bewildering assortment of head bolt diameters and sizes.
head part numbers.JPG
 
Wow, all kinds.
I noticed at least two different styles of NON-stretch (not TTY) bolts on my engines. Both have the same thread size, shank size, and head size, but one has an enlargement in the shaft diameter towards the head (here we go with more "phrasing" jokes). Sort of similar to TTY bolts, but in reverse - it is only in one place near the head and the shank is full size the rest of the length. Almost as if there had been a problem with heads snapping off.
And I've also noticed other differences. Very different markings on the heads; some almost look like standard grade 10.9 bolt markings (might be if a PO changed them). And slight length differences between engines (roughly 5mm).
 
Dan Sarandrea (Phila) said:
No, the change to "stretch" bolts was much earlier, I think it was change #6818 starting with motor #4037356. Here's the page from the parts manual, showing the bewildering assortment of head bolt diameters and sizes.View attachment 23953
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The "timeline" on these starts at the lower left & goes around clockwise. First studs/nuts, then 12mm bolts, then 10mm bolts with 12mm upper shank, then 10mm bolts. The shorter bolts shown on the upper right are the 4 "extra" bolts that go near the spark plugs on a 14-bolt head.
 
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