gene cooley
Autocrosser
According to Wikipedia's GM ownership history (worth reading) you have 2 GM's to hate. The "old" deceased GM that bought Saab and ran it into the ground, and the "new" GM that sold it into oblivion.
I have a '72 Sonett.
Uno Turbo blocks and possible displacement increase
- Thread starter TDeReggi
- Start date
According to Wikipedia's GM ownership history (worth reading) you have 2 GM's to hate. The "old" deceased GM that bought Saab and ran it into the ground, and the "new" GM that sold it into oblivion.
I have a '72 Sonett.
Hi Jeff.
No, it was this one:
I had the car when it was Yellow as shown above. Really do miss that car! Alex did an amazing job with it though.
Now, I do agree the 500 was tough, but then again, would I trade the issues with the new swap and now having a technology that is newer than 30 years old may be worth it.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
No, it was this one:
I had the car when it was Yellow as shown above. Really do miss that car! Alex did an amazing job with it though.
Now, I do agree the 500 was tough, but then again, would I trade the issues with the new swap and now having a technology that is newer than 30 years old may be worth it.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
The Red exxe was owned by Alex, has Penske dampers and more... GOOD chassis-suspension set up on this car.
Think this car is now in Australia.
The blue exxe was owned by John S. He died in a surfing incident, This was one of the first known Honda K20 conversions.
After the initial K20 series conversion was done, a supercharger went in. Think this car is now in SoCal.
Bernice
Think this car is now in Australia.
The blue exxe was owned by John S. He died in a surfing incident, This was one of the first known Honda K20 conversions.
After the initial K20 series conversion was done, a supercharger went in. Think this car is now in SoCal.
Bernice
Yes, the Red X was owned by Alex, before Alex it was owned by me (see the Yellow Days part) and before me it was Steve Soar who built it. You are correct, it is in Australia but I have not seen any updates for some time. Hope to see some soon.
GregS
ProjectX
Here's some pics just after it came to Adelaide. New owner had a lot of work done in the 1st few years, full race cage, supercharger, sequential trans. Unfortunately it suffered a major engine problem at an interstate meeting a couple of years ago and hasn't been seen since. Hopefully one day.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Shared quite a number of emails with Alex back in the day when he owned this exxe.
Does 0-60 mph about 3 seconds, lots of mechanical grip, works good with the driver too.
This is one of the very few exxe that stuck in mind over the years.
Imagine and ponder what the x1/9 could have been IF fiat allowed Bertone and others to have their ways of
marketing the x1/9 via WRC and much more? There would have been no question the x1/9 would have a very diffeent
market image and branding today.
Bernice
Does 0-60 mph about 3 seconds, lots of mechanical grip, works good with the driver too.
This is one of the very few exxe that stuck in mind over the years.
Imagine and ponder what the x1/9 could have been IF fiat allowed Bertone and others to have their ways of
marketing the x1/9 via WRC and much more? There would have been no question the x1/9 would have a very diffeent
market image and branding today.
Bernice
TDeReggi
Daily Driver
FastX19 wrote: "Now, I do agree the 500 was tough, but then again, would I trade the issues with the new swap and now having a technology that is newer than 30 years old may be worth it. "
It would be interesting and relevant to hear more about 500swap experiences.
I think its more of an issue of what someone's skill sets are and what resources they have. For a less experienced guy (like myself), learning from others, and following in their footsteps can be a whole lots easier. Its not always about whats best, but about what would get finished. Its always nice to be the one that does something cool first, and to gain the satisfaction that goes with it after putting in all the hard work, when its viable. Last year what renewed my Interest in potentially building up a FIatX1/9 (after 8 years playing with C4s) was learning about the K20 swaps. Both the excitement of 200HP in a 1500lb car, and things like MidWest Bayless's swap kits, that would save a ton of time and make the task more viable. I cant fathom me being at the level anytime soon, that I could fabricate custom driveshafts and engine mounts and stuff like that, thats part of the kit (allthough now and then, I do surprise myself, and learn I can be more capable than I thought
Anyway, an exciting option, with only about a $10k commitment in parts, and a proven game plan to follow.
So my point is..... The K20 swap is sorta like the reference standard to compare other swaps to. Is something else more or less of a hassle? for more or less benefit? I think the Fiat 500 swap sounds like a good idea, but from a scope of work, I'd class it as a more labor and skill intensive "swap" apposed to just a "engine rebuild or major mod", where there is plenty enough "how to" info out there. For me, its another opportunity to listen and learn, and research.
I don't so much mind "old technology". That's part of the fun of working with historic and vintage cars. And pulling from modern knowledge to make the old technology all it can be. But I agree, after 30-40 years, "availability" is a very real thing that cant be ignored.
On a side note: it was neat to see your yellow X19 pre and post Dallara fendor installation.
How did you fasten the panels to the car at the joints? Was it just a combination of a few bolts and adhesive? Or did you fiber glass and resin it to the metal at the seams?
It would be interesting and relevant to hear more about 500swap experiences.
I think its more of an issue of what someone's skill sets are and what resources they have. For a less experienced guy (like myself), learning from others, and following in their footsteps can be a whole lots easier. Its not always about whats best, but about what would get finished. Its always nice to be the one that does something cool first, and to gain the satisfaction that goes with it after putting in all the hard work, when its viable. Last year what renewed my Interest in potentially building up a FIatX1/9 (after 8 years playing with C4s) was learning about the K20 swaps. Both the excitement of 200HP in a 1500lb car, and things like MidWest Bayless's swap kits, that would save a ton of time and make the task more viable. I cant fathom me being at the level anytime soon, that I could fabricate custom driveshafts and engine mounts and stuff like that, thats part of the kit (allthough now and then, I do surprise myself, and learn I can be more capable than I thought
Anyway, an exciting option, with only about a $10k commitment in parts, and a proven game plan to follow. So my point is..... The K20 swap is sorta like the reference standard to compare other swaps to. Is something else more or less of a hassle? for more or less benefit? I think the Fiat 500 swap sounds like a good idea, but from a scope of work, I'd class it as a more labor and skill intensive "swap" apposed to just a "engine rebuild or major mod", where there is plenty enough "how to" info out there. For me, its another opportunity to listen and learn, and research.
I don't so much mind "old technology". That's part of the fun of working with historic and vintage cars. And pulling from modern knowledge to make the old technology all it can be. But I agree, after 30-40 years, "availability" is a very real thing that cant be ignored.
On a side note: it was neat to see your yellow X19 pre and post Dallara fendor installation.
How did you fasten the panels to the car at the joints? Was it just a combination of a few bolts and adhesive? Or did you fiber glass and resin it to the metal at the seams?
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
So you did the fiberglass? I really like the shaping. Was it a prefabricated kit or did you build it from scratch?
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
I think you might find that's what's know as a "Boig" body kit, as Bob Boig used (perhaps designed) this style on his race car.
SteveC
GregS
ProjectX
Not mine Eric. Current owner is Russell, also in Adelaide.
Hi Bjorn
Alex was the one who put the fiberglass on it after I had sold it to him. I remember him using Zeus fasteners to do the job as with a race car you do find yourself taking things on and off quite often! I still keep in touch with Alex, even though he lives in Europe now, and can drop him a line and ask if you need to know. Thanks.
Alex was the one who put the fiberglass on it after I had sold it to him. I remember him using Zeus fasteners to do the job as with a race car you do find yourself taking things on and off quite often! I still keep in touch with Alex, even though he lives in Europe now, and can drop him a line and ask if you need to know. Thanks.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Daily driver 1991 Saab 9000turbo. Got a "nose job" as the original front was replace with the later CSE front from a 93' Aero.
This is one of the fave Saab-Scania B234 videos, two in a boat:
Bernice
This is one of the fave Saab-Scania B234 videos, two in a boat:
Bernice
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
About the "newer technology" discussion. I do not have good examples to help illustrate this, but when it comes to doing a powertrain swap into a older vehicle (like we are discussing), I am all for some newer technologies but not others. What I mean is I'd like to benefit from as much technology as possible, so long as it is reasonable or practical to do realistically. Otherwise I'm not sure the added technology is worth the effort and expense to install it...sort of a cost/benefit tradeoff.
Like I said I really don't have great examples to explain, but I'll try. I might be remembering it wrong but it seemed in Tony K's "new 500" swap build thread he had major problems getting everything to work. I believe the whole multiair system was one of those things? Perhaps better examples are in non-Fiat circles. Such as when guys put modern Japanese drivetrains in their old Japanese cars, or same with some German swaps. And the electronics, computer systems, wire harnesses, etc, are such a headache that they often scrap all of it and run a aftermarket ECU to bypass most of the stuff. Well that sounds like it defeats the intent of going to newer technology, if you end up disabling it.
However if by newer technology we mean a newer more efficient engine design/engineering, with things like a cross flow twin cam head, a bottom end designed from the factory for boost, lighter alloys used instead of cast iron, stronger components that are more reliable, efficient induction and ignition systems, cleaner burning with better fuel economy, etc, then heck ya - I'm all for it! Not sure if that makes any sense but I guess it might come down to exactly what is meant by "newer technology". Maybe there are different degrees of what's considered new? Relevant to the X's SHOC just about anything is newer technology.
Like I said I really don't have great examples to explain, but I'll try. I might be remembering it wrong but it seemed in Tony K's "new 500" swap build thread he had major problems getting everything to work. I believe the whole multiair system was one of those things? Perhaps better examples are in non-Fiat circles. Such as when guys put modern Japanese drivetrains in their old Japanese cars, or same with some German swaps. And the electronics, computer systems, wire harnesses, etc, are such a headache that they often scrap all of it and run a aftermarket ECU to bypass most of the stuff. Well that sounds like it defeats the intent of going to newer technology, if you end up disabling it.
However if by newer technology we mean a newer more efficient engine design/engineering, with things like a cross flow twin cam head, a bottom end designed from the factory for boost, lighter alloys used instead of cast iron, stronger components that are more reliable, efficient induction and ignition systems, cleaner burning with better fuel economy, etc, then heck ya - I'm all for it! Not sure if that makes any sense but I guess it might come down to exactly what is meant by "newer technology". Maybe there are different degrees of what's considered new? Relevant to the X's SHOC just about anything is newer technology.
kmead
Old enough to know better
The issue with the US 500 is it is a Multi-air and a standalone engine management system isn’t available. Tony spent untold hours integrating all the sensors a complete 500 has which includes the ABS system etc as well as the anti theft system and so on. It is a great engine.
In the EU there is a different version of the 500 engine which isn’t multi air, effectively a conventional engine without the engine controlled valve system, which would be a better Fiat candidate for the X. Just not available here, I believe it is the T-Jet engine (also part of the FIRE family).
If Fiat offered a standalone package to run this engine it would be a great engine for an X. A factory standalone system for a race car would be the bees knees as they say.
In the EU there is a different version of the 500 engine which isn’t multi air, effectively a conventional engine without the engine controlled valve system, which would be a better Fiat candidate for the X. Just not available here, I believe it is the T-Jet engine (also part of the FIRE family).
If Fiat offered a standalone package to run this engine it would be a great engine for an X. A factory standalone system for a race car would be the bees knees as they say.
lanciahf
True Classic
I think this would be a good opportunity for FCA to petition Mopar for a standalone ECU for the Abarth motor. Just like Mopar has for hellacat engine. Would they make money probably not but the benefit would pay dividends in good will. Plus it would not take much effort. They already have the software just turn off the unused sections.
gene cooley
Autocrosser
It might be interesting to see if the GM 1.4 turbo motor has any similarities to the 500 motor. Not sure if there is any crossover from the GM/Fiat association from the early 2000s.
Both have iron blocks, kind of an oddity when aluminum blocks are in favor.
The GM 1.4 has a normal twincam 4 valve layout. It has variable valve timing, and a simple (for these days) port injection system rather than direct injection. Most or all GM 1.4s are turbo.
There is a lot of aftermarket support.
Looks like it could be built in any form from a simple fixed cam, carbed, crank triggered NA configuration to a fully built turbo or supercharged race motor.
Does it fit? Don't know.
Both have iron blocks, kind of an oddity when aluminum blocks are in favor.
The GM 1.4 has a normal twincam 4 valve layout. It has variable valve timing, and a simple (for these days) port injection system rather than direct injection. Most or all GM 1.4s are turbo.
There is a lot of aftermarket support.
Looks like it could be built in any form from a simple fixed cam, carbed, crank triggered NA configuration to a fully built turbo or supercharged race motor.
Does it fit? Don't know.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
I've seen a X1/9 with a 500 Abarth engine here in Sweden. A very clean setup built by a Norwegian guy. I have a couple of photos but I don't know if they are ok to be published here. It has an aftermarket ECU that simplified the swap a lot. I bet the MaxxECU system can handle the valve control on any engine.
VVT
To make this control page to be visible in MTune, you must activate an output as a VVT intake/exhaust cam solenoid.
kmead
Old enough to know better
Pics are always welcome. I would suspect it isn’t the full Air system which does more than most VVT systems. However I would not be upset to be proven wrongI've seen a X1/9 with a 500 Abarth engine here in Sweden. A very clean setup built by a Norwegian guy. I have a couple of photos but I don't know if they are ok to be published here. It has an aftermarket ECU that simplified the swap a lot. I bet the MaxxECU system can handle the valve control on any engine.
VVT
To make this control page to be visible in MTune, you must activate an output as a VVT intake/exhaust cam solenoid.www.maxxecu.com
dcioccarelli
Dominic Cioccarelli
I've seen a X1/9 with a 500 Abarth engine here in Sweden. A very clean setup built by a Norwegian guy. I have a couple of photos but I don't know if they are ok to be published here. It has an aftermarket ECU that simplified the swap a lot. I bet the MaxxECU system can handle the valve control on any engine.
VVT
To make this control page to be visible in MTune, you must activate an output as a VVT intake/exhaust cam solenoid.
Hi Bjorn,
note that the Multi Air is a pretty special beast. Whilst most VVT systems simply have two different profiles on the cam and use a solenoid to switch between them, the Multi Air is essentially a fully "mappable" cam allowing for essentially any profile adjustment (by hydraulically controlling the valve timing). That said, I just had a quick look and there do seem to be some after market ECUs that support Multi Air now:
Start Shopping - car parts and accessories - 500 MADNESS
We offer the best in aftermarket parts and accessories.
500madness.com
Cheers,
Dom.