87 Dash / Binnacle Modification

[lookforjoe]

I'm looking for good pics the show the depth of the cluster recess in the binnacle, and the detail of the 'scallop' ridge I see in this pic below.

What I'm contemplating is cutting up the big box binnacle & pushing forward the top edge, and angling the right side where the AC & radio used to be - set so the left edge aligns with the gauge plate I have, instead of sitting 2-3" back (closer to driver) as it does now. The bottom has to stay where it is, but the top could be cut back (further away from driver) 2" or more, I think. It would then angle down to the bottom edge, following the diagonal of the glovebox side, instead of being a big rectangular lump. I just can't get into making a whole new dash in the winter, so I need to do something to alter the stock layout for now, beyond the gauges.

It appears that the dash top edge is further forward by a fair bit compared to the later lump - unless that is an illusion? I've never seen this in the flesh.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I know what you mean, to me the later dash is a bit oddly proportioned/arranged - almost looks more like a afterthought rather than a new design. But like you, I've never had a old style dash to compare to.
I was wondering if the basic dash (late style) could be retained but make a new section to replace just the benical area. Basically remove the rectangle box and form a more sculpted shape to go there. A lot less to make from scratch. But I haven't given it much thought. There's lots of good examples to consider.

 

[lookforjoe]

Good examples - I'm not going to go thAr far at the moment as that would entail significant fabrication & fibreglass / epoxy work that I just can't do in the enclosed space of the garage in the winter.

Modding the binacle will only require cutting & subsequent covering with vinyl, so not bad on the use of toxic elements

 

[dllubin]

I'm looking for good pics the show the depth of the cluster recess in the binnacle, and the detail of the 'scallop' ridge I see in this pic below.

What I'm contemplating is cutting up the big box binnacle & pushing forward the top edge, and angling the right side where the AC & radio used to be - set so the left edge aligns with the gauge plate I have, instead of sitting 2-3" back (closer to driver) as it does now. The bottom has to stay where it is, but the top could be cut back (further away from driver) 2" or more, I think. It would then angle down to the bottom edge, following the diagonal of the glovebox side, instead of being a big rectangular lump. I just can't get into making a whole new dash in the winter, so I need to do something to alter the stock layout for now, beyond the gauges.

View attachment 39971

View attachment 39972

It appears that the dash top edge is further forward by a fair bit compared to the later lump - unless that is an illusion? I've never seen this in the flesh.

View attachment 39967

That's no illusion. That is what it looks like. The recess is small.

 

[bjwhite]

You added an analog clock to valuable instrument cluster space? Man. I love the red LED Vegliaflash clock. One of the best ever IMHO--or did you have plans for that area where the Veglia clock should go?

 

[lookforjoe]

That's no illusion. That is what it looks like. The recess is small.

Do you have pics of yours you can add here?

 

[lookforjoe]

You added an analog clock to valuable instrument cluster space? Man. I love the red LED Vegliaflash clock. One of the best ever IMHO--or did you have plans for that area where the Veglia clock should go?

Yes - it makes the nice old-fashioned tick-tock

I have an ambient temp gauge where the Veglia used to be

 

[tvmaster]

Yes - it makes the nice old-fashioned tick-tock

I have an ambient temp gauge where the Veglia used to be

Geez man, you’ve got a lot going on...

 

[dllubin]

Do you have pics of yours you can add here?

Here is an ancient photo probably taken with a flip phone but you get the general idea it is similar to the photo you posted. Let me know if you want close ups of anything specific and I'll take some new photos.

 

[lookforjoe]

Here is an ancient photo probably taken with a flip phone but you get the general idea it is similar to the photo you posted. Let me know if you want close ups of anything specific and I'll take some new photos.

Thanks - I was hoping for clearer, crisp pics - I found this one of Jim McKenzies (2013) - which helps with the perspective, but it's not clear.

Ideally, a measurement from the dash vent rear edge to the lip would help show the actual depth of the dash top and a measurement from the cluster base to the lip where it meets the column shroud (please)

I presume the vent hoses either do not run behind the cluster (as with late AC cars), or they use an oval tube, as the tube is definitely in the way of the cluster sitting that far forward in the dash.

Comparison pic of mine - god, that is one ugly binnacle - what really bothers me about it is the AC/Radio area pushed toward the cabin so far - it throws the whole balance off (what there is of it)

Found this one (Wily's Fiat X1/9 ) also. He links a nice dash repair Bimmer thread in his post

 

[bjwhite]

I love the later dash, the old one not as much.

 

[Rodger]

Geez man, you’ve got a lot going on...

You have no idea. You are new here so you haven’t seen anything of what Hussein has done or is capable of.

 

[Rodger]

what really bothers me about it is the AC/Radio area pushed toward the cabin so far - it throws the whole balance off (what there is of it)

I think that is the whole reason for the dash redesign in’79. The add-on pod for a radio in the 1300’s was beyond ugly. Once Bertone decided to incorporate the radio into the binnacle, then they moved the AC/heater controls up above that and that necessitated bring the instrument cluster closer to the steering wheel. Since they didn’t spend any money on rearranging the gauge cluster that resulted in the steering wheel cutting off the tach. Changing to a counter clockwise tach was the cheap “fix” for that.
My concern with you pushing things further into the binnacle and trimming it off is can you fit the AC controls in there? If you move them down to where the radio used to be, you may have more depth there, then move your gauges above that. Just depends on if you can work out the cable to the heater valve.

Moving the instrument cluster forward is no problem since you don’t use a mechanical speedometer anymore.

 

[darwoodious]

Hussein, I'm rocking the old dashboards. They're all apart but can put a cluster in and measure. Where exactly are you looking to take measurements? Just the depth from the edge of the dash front-top to the cluster? I can do that...

(runs down to garage and takes photos)

The gauge cluster is essentially flush at the top. The cluster was designed for these early dashes as they incorporate a recess in the cluster to shield from the sun. Hope this is what you were asking.

Regarding moving it forward, yeah - not a lot of room back there...

 

[darwoodious]

oh, and someone mentioned how heavy the dashboards are maybe in another thread - I weighed it cuz I just didn't understand the thinking there.

Maybe the later model dashboards are heavier.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

@lookforjoe, help me to visualize your thoughts here. Are you considering replacing your late model dash with a early style one, then modify that by moving things in and out respectively?

I presume the vent hoses either do not run behind the cluster (as with late AC cars), or they use an oval tube, as the tube is definitely in the way of the cluster sitting that far forward in the dash.

I've never had one so I'm not sure, but I recall discussions about the early dashes say they do not connect the outer dash vents to the heater box at all? So if I'm understanding that right, there are no hoses going from the center section out to the ends of the dash? Hopefully someone with a early dash can explain it.

what really bothers me about it is the AC/Radio area pushed toward the cabin so far - it throws the whole balance off (what there is of it)

My later style AC equipped dash is out of the car and stripped down, so I cannot verify this. But I seem to recall when I was removing it that there wasn't much room behind the AC (pushbutton) control panel and the vents/heater/defroster assemblies? So the location of the control panel being forward (toward the cabin) might be in part due to the need to clear objects behind it?

What if the AC control panel and radio panel were relocated to the center console, or some other location. Then the area where they currently reside can be moved further forward (toward the nose of the car) and repurposed for other things - gauges, switches that are currently on the center console, etc. Basically swap these two panels....

 

[Dr.Jeff]

oh, and someone mentioned how heavy the dashboards are maybe in another thread - I weighed it cuz I just didn't understand the thinking there.

View attachment 40002

View attachment 40003

Maybe the later model dashboards are heavier.

Apparently the early style is MUCH lighter than the late style. When I weighed my late dash, stripped bare like yours, it was 18 lbs (if I recall correctly). That's more than four times heavier! And there were several assemblies that had been removed adding another 10 or so pounds to that.

 

[darwoodious]

I've never had one so I'm not sure, but I recall discussions about the early dashes say they do not connect the outer dash vents to the heater box at all? So if I'm understanding that right, there are no hoses going from the center section out to the ends of the dash? Hopefully someone with a early dash can explain it.

Correct. The outer dash vents simply connect to the rain tray / scuttle - whatever that's called. Heat/AC is only in the center vents (defrost/front/floor)

 

[Rodger]

Correct. The outer dash vents simply connect to the rain tray / scuttle - whatever that's called. Heat/AC is only in the center vents (defrost/front/floor)

It's the same on the non-AC 1500's. Outside vents just go to the scuttle.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

It's the same on the non-AC 1500's. Outside vents just go to the scuttle.

I've never removed a non-AC dash from my later model X's (I only have one non-AC X), so I hadn't noticed that. Is the AC version the only one with "connected" outer vents? Obviously that applies to the heat function as well as AC. Interesting.

Were there different versions of "AC" X's, like factory vs dealer installed? Talking about later models only, not the horrible idea with a funky long shaft water pump. I know for example on Mk1 VW's there was. And the arrangement of the vent connections are different. In some cases the dealer (or whomever installed the non-factory unit) would eliminate some air ducts and rivet covers over the openings. So you got limited air flow function options.

I know those outer vent connecting hoses (on the AC version X) are like many vehicles from that era. They are firm plastic tubes that tend to warp, shrink, harden, crack, etc, over time and usually do not seal onto the ducts very well as a result. Typically if someone has been in there before, you will find duct tape around those joints.