Manifold flanges

Dr.Jeff

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
Is there a source for blank steel flanges for the exhaust (SOHC)? I'm referring to the mating surface at the head; some pre-cut flat plate to make a set of headers from.
Also the same thing for the bottom of a 4:2 cast manifold, where the down pipe mates, for making custom down pipes.

For that matter, how about flanges for making custom intake manifolds?
Thanks
 
I got all my bendy parts and my exhaust flange from here.
http://www.mandrelbends.com
They do have Fiat flanges unfortunately they are all for the 124 DOHC variants.
You might reach out and see if the can digitize and cut a custom flange... I seem to remember some others asked the same, or similar question. You may be able to get some others to commit to a minimum quantity for custom order.
That has been floated for other more high priced components, with little success, but the lower cost my be conducive to hitting the minimum requirements.
Another option would be a local company with a water jet cutting capability as they may be easier to deal with...
Good Luck. Hope this is helpful.
Regards
 
Thanks, but as you state they only have exhaust flanges for the 124. Was hoping some place has done this for the SOHC head, both the intake and exhaust manifolds (separately), plus one for the cast manifold to down-pipe.

I have an foreign contact that runs a laser cutter and can make them. Actually he is very reasonable in cost (low overhead where he is) and he does not require a large commitment. The only problem is I either need to get the original manifolds to him so he can make the patterns (but very expensive to ship due to weight and size), or I can send him the digital file with the pattern (but I don't have that capability).

If someone here can assist with the digital file then these flanges can be made available for everyone. What we need is the ability to scan the part and convert it to something like dxf/dwg/svg etc. (which is way beyond me, I'm just repeating what he said).

Must be someone here that help with that?
Thanks
 
I have been thinking of making some, I can digitize the flanges and cut them, I have a cnc plasma cutter, cut quality is not quite as good as laser but is close to affordable for a hobbyist.

I was thinking of knocking some out this winter. If there is interest I could probably work on it sooner.

Dr.Jeff said:
Thanks, but as you state they only have exhaust flanges for the 124. Was hoping some place has done this for the SOHC head, both the intake and exhaust manifolds (separately), plus one for the cast manifold to down-pipe.


I have an foreign contact that runs a laser cutter and can make them. Actually he is very reasonable in cost (low overhead where he is) and he does not require a large commitment. The only problem is I either need to get the original manifolds to him so he can make the patterns (but very expensive to ship due to weight and size), or I can send him the digital file with the pattern (but I don't have that capability).

If someone here can assist with the digital file then these flanges can be made available for everyone. What we need is the ability to scan the part and convert it to something like dxf/dwg/svg etc. (which is way beyond me, I'm just repeating what he said).

Must be someone here that help with that?
Thanks
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Brian. I want some flanges to play with. I'm not in any rush, just another experimental project.

Were you thinking on doing all three that I mentioned (exh, down-pipe, intake)?

I guess we can discuss the options. My contact's laser method makes perfect cuts (no finishing required). So if you can assist with creating the files we can use him. Or if you think it is easier to do it with your plasma method I'll do whatever I can to assist you. Maybe send me a message to talk about it.

Thanks, Jeff
 
I have actually had tools made from a photo... A high quality image ( must be taken straight on to ensure shape integrity) This can be coupled with reference measurements i.e. runner size, bolt hole size/spacing etc. Should get you what you need.
You might also be able to have a forum member generate the files. This could be verified remotely by exchanging various types of files which you can print and compare to your desired source parts for tweaking. Your contact may be near someone who could hand off the parts?
You may also be able to contact your local Tech school (college os HS) I taught at our local college and we did work with people in cases like this. It is good for the students to see/have/do "real projects" like this where they can put the skills they are learning to use.
Many ways to skin this cat... Just wish I knew the one way everyone seems to know... :)
Regards
 
A gasket makes a good template to work from.

I don't have any manifold or other gaskets at the moment, but could easily provide the file in nearly any format desired.

Mark Allison has made steel intakes for the twin cam motors (124 and Scorpion) which seem to work well.

I could easily see a steel intake manifold with longer runners, possibly with individual throttles and injector mounts down the curve pointing more nearly at the valves to get away from the restrictive existing FI manifolds.

A tuned length could give a nice ram effect to maximize the fill of the cylinders. Not that I can figure that out, someone else with an engineering degree would be the best choice for that part of the job
 
kmead said:
A gasket makes a good template to work from.
Click to expand...
Are you saying you can create the needed file from a gasket if one were provided to you? I don't have any at the moment but I'll order it if you can help with this.
One possible problem with that however is I've found gaskets aren't always that accurate. But it may be the best solution in this case.
As a side note, I've often thought it was less than desirable to use a gasket as the template for port matching. Sure, you can make both sides match the gasket. But that will not necessarily be the proper center line of the actual ports. This deviation in flow direction could also cause turbulence so the end result may not be any better than before. Be better to use dye and mate the two surfaces for an actual image of how they correspond.

The rest of your comments are exactly what I'm after....experimentation is fun.
 
So an alternative could be to get a gasket for the bolt locations and a rubbing of the cylinder head (after porting ?) and match them up to make a 1:1 file to cut from. I can do any or all of the above, just need some source material to start from, preferably an original object to work from. By original I mean the gasket and or the rubbing.

I can then create the file, print some examples on paper to apply to the actual object to verify, adjust and then send the completed/adjusted file off to your preferred waterjet or laser cutter.

You would also want to make sure you madE allowance for the tubes to be welded into the plates depending on the approach chosen.

Karl
 
Last edited:
kmead said:
preferably an original object to work from
Click to expand...
That's what my guy overseas said, but it isn't practical to ship a head and/or manifolds to him. I will wait to hear what Brian is planning as well. He may have a better solution.

In the mean time I don't have a bare head to work with either, but when I do I will get a new gasket and mate it to the head for fitment. If it is close enough then we'll just go with the gasket. Otherwise I can make a paper template off the head. It may be awhile before I get head...er, I mean have a head to work with. This is one of those long term projects.

Thanks Karl.
 
No worries, I am not going anywhere and will always have the software and skills to do this for you or anyone else who has a need.

One of my past projects with Bob Brown was the template for cutting a new engine compartment heat shield for the firewall, have a look at that. I worked from some pictures from Bob and we adjusted the file based on feedback from him printing an early copy out and then moving some features around.
 
As I think about it more, maybe using a gasket for the pattern may not be that bad. Once the steel flange is cut, it can then be used as a template to port match the head. Because in this case the flange will be the manifold, so matching it will provide a true port match. Therefore any minor inconsistency in the gasket (when used as the pattern for making the flange) will be accounted for when the head is ported accordingly.

I have other ideas of items that can be custom cut with a laser cutting machine. Same circumstance, would need to create a digital file of the item. Maybe in the future we can explore more options. Appreciate any assistance, as these are skills I don't pocess but wish I did.

By "heat shield" are you referring to the insulation layer that lines the engine compartment side of the firewall? I'd like to see what you did, link readily available?
I noticed on the Australian X site a company there is making replacement firewall insulation. They offer four different patterns for various years of X. I did not know there were different patterns for this but not surprised. Scroll down to "DomX1/9": http://www.x19.com.au/ozsupplier.html
 
I have a head that I just had ported to match the euro manifold... 26mm and an old gasket, access to intake and exhaust manifolds if needed. I can make a rubbing off the head and send that and the old gasket to Karl. The only problem with our gasket is the fact that they share(in/ex) same gasket. Since you want to make both flanges it is not a problem but you might end up fabbing something that would only work with your other piece. You would want to make one that would cross to stock companion to keep options open.
Regards
 
Rocco, couple of thoughts,

Please take a look at the head, manifolds, and gasket to see how well the gasket compares (dimensions and locations of all holes) to the others. Although if you've ported the head it may not be a fair comparison. But I'd like to determine how good of a pattern the gasket would make (how accurate it is).

As for the gasket containing both manifolds, that is not a problem. I intend to cut the pattern into three parts to isolate the two manifolds before having the flanges made. That way either or both could be used as desired.

Is the exhaust manifold you have available for viewing a dual outlet type (i.e. Euro spec or '74 spec)? If so, please see if a pattern can be made for that end of it as well. I'm planning on having custom dual down-pipes made for use with the 4:2 cast manifold.

Thanks for the offer to assist.
 
In regards to the flanges, we will need to know ahead of time how you want to deal with the pipes that will be welded to the flanges.

Most would have the pipe come flush with the mating face of the flange or very close to it. This would suggest that the holes be sized for the OD of the pipes. So, knowing the outside diameter of the pipe to be used will have a significant effect on the flange drawings/files to be created.
 
kmead said:
deal with the pipes that will be welded to the flanges
Click to expand...
I am asking the guy with the laser cutter if it can make a small "flared" bevel in the 'head side' edge of the flanges, where the tubes pass through. This will allow the tubes to be welded on BOTH sides of the flange, then re-face the surface that contacts the gasket/head. I've seen that done on better quality headers. Less chance of failure due to vibration/heat.
 
I had problems with burn through on my gaskets and after the second attempt to solve I decided to do the feel/meely on the flange. The ceramic coating was applied to the flange and my dad installed without removing the material. Much it cracked off and until I filed the flange clean I was never getting a seal!
Not sure what I have for manifolds... When I get back to my stuff(Wednesday) I can let you know.
If you are going to use a stock downpipe and beyond you will need the Fiat manifold gasket for a pattern. If not you can just buy a two holer from mandrel bends... Two actually, one from header and one to exhaust.
Either way I will check back in Wednesday and let you know what I have.
Regards
 
I will see if I can pull the DXF out of that. Nice solution. Great find! Thank you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top