Midwest front anti sway bar

Dr.Jeff said:
Ones like in the sample pics I posted are connected solidly to the suspension trailing arms in more than one point on either side. So the legs of the sway bar are essentially an extension of the trailing arms. With that arrangement the sway bar does not attach to the body/chassis at all. Instead it is like a torsion bar spring in between to two suspension training arms (which is essentially what all sway bars are). Just a different design. I think it works better on a solid rear axle system than a independant one, but I seem to recall someone had that sort of arrangement on the front sway bar for their X1/9.
Click to expand...
I did not see the trailing arm connection in the photos but if that is how it works, it sounds a lot like the front Addco bar for the X.
 
dllubin said:
I did not see the trailing arm connection in the photos but if that is how it works, it sounds a lot like the front Addco bar for the X.
Click to expand...
Honestly I don't remember how the front Addco bar mounts. But that might be the one I'm thinking of in my last post.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Ones like in the sample pics I posted are connected solidly to the suspension trailing arms in more than one point on either side. So the legs of the sway bar are essentially an extension of the trailing arms. With that arrangement the sway bar does not attach to the body/chassis at all. Instead it is like a torsion bar spring in between to two suspension training arms (which is essentially what all sway bars are). Just a different design. I think it works better on a solid rear axle system than a independant one, but I seem to recall someone had that sort of arrangement on the front sway bar for their X1/9.
Click to expand...
Just about every independent modern suspension uses the Body mount sway bar attachments with end links. So probably best to stick with this formula. I am just not sure what the existing layout attaching to the radius rod has on hard cornering. Seem so me under real heavy torsion load there has to be some transfer into the radius rod. Should only be a the end links.
 
There is only one swaybar available for the X1/9, the ADDCO. That is what everyone sells and has been for a loong time.
The mounting method makes an engineer cringe, but it works in practice, even with track tires on a race track.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
I haven't thought this through to know if it would work, but I wonder if a sway bar could replace the radius (trailing) arms completely....assuming the sway bar was designed to do so. The mounting points could be the ones used by the original trailing arms at both ends. Something along this idea:
View attachment 73616
Click to expand...
You mean how it is on a 128/Yugo, VW Super Beetle and many other early MacPherson Strut designs.
 
Bobkat said:
Should not be that hard to make up a bracket for a traditional Bushing with an adjustable rod.

View attachment 73625

View attachment 73626
Click to expand...
Bend the flange out of the same blank, then add the gussets underneath. That way you aren’t relying only on welds. That little tongue you have sticking up is just along for the ride.
Dr.Jeff said:
Wasn't there one example where the sway bar was simply anchored solidly to the two trailing arms, and no other attachments? That is how many of the rear bars are mounted for other vehicles.

View attachment 73621View attachment 73622
Click to expand...
Increases unsprung weight which given the lumps in this image are rather less than important.

Hussien used a Volvo 760 sway bar mounted from behind the front wheels (ala Fiat 850) to act on the lower A arms.
 
kmead said:
Bend the flange out of the same blank, then add the gussets underneath. That way you aren’t relying only on welds. That little tongue you have sticking up is just along for the ride.

Increases unsprung weight which given the lumps in this image are rather less than important.

Hussien used a Volvo 760 sway bar mounted from behind the front wheels (ala Fiat 850) to act on the lower A arms.
Click to expand...

The intent was always a bent bracket. Just had to work out the spacing. The tab was just me trying design around some bushings I already had.

1684857049153.png
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Something I've noticed on the X's front suspension is the location of the wheel relative to the body. When the castor is correctly set, the trailing arm places the wheel considerably out of the center of the wheel arch on the body (viewed from the side). It ends up sitting very forward in the fender opening and that allows tire contact with the lower front corner of the fender if you have wider tires, lowered suspension, bigger wheels, etc. Not to mention it looks like the car has been in accident.
Click to expand...
I have about as big as a front tire that you can squeeze. I am still dealing with the fallout of the last alignment. Did not have rubbing before and now do. One side is in spec for caster but the other is way out. I wonder what people have their caster set to if they are trying to center the wheel more and what effect that has had?
 
Bobkat said:
I have about as big as a front tire that you can squeeze. I am still dealing with the fallout of the last alignment. Did not have rubbing before and now do. One side is in spec for caster but the other is way out. I wonder what people have their caster set to if they are trying to center the wheel more and what effect that has had?
Click to expand...
Last time my caster was checked was 1975. I assumed they checked it against the factory spec. At the time, I had 185/70-13 Pirelli CN36 tires on. They really filled up the wheel wells - actually looked better than 185/60-13s. They did require rolling the fender lip and folding the front lower edge. I don't remember how centered the wheel was in the fender opening but there was not much room to move it forward or backwards.
 
Bobkat said:
I have about as big as a front tire that you can squeeze. I am still dealing with the fallout of the last alignment. Did not have rubbing before and now do. One side is in spec for caster but the other is way out. I wonder what people have their caster set to if they are trying to center the wheel more and what effect that has had?
Click to expand...
To move the wheel into the center of the fender arch would change the castor quite a bit. It would make the car very "twitchy" and nervous. Especially on irregular roads, etc. Might be good for a race-only track car on short, tight courses but I wouldn't want to drive it on the streets.
 
Ulix said:
Yes, less self-centering, worse straight line tracking, less stable feel and less steering effort would be the effects.
Click to expand...
Very well described, thanks. ;)

Recently I've been driving a FWD car that was designed with a lot of negative castor (same as we are talking about) to help compensate for the natural effects of FWD steering. It is a American car (hate it already) that my parents bought. When I take my 99 Y.O. mother to doctor appoints it is the only vehicle that she can get in and out of easily, so that's what we use. I do not like it at all. It behaves exactly like Ulix described. Not only is it no fun to drive, it can even be dangerous if you aren't paying 100% attention all of the time. As it easily wants to wonder into the next lane quickly. Unfortunately there is no castor adjustment on that vehicle. :(
 
Ulix said:
Yes, less self-centering, worse straight line tracking, less stable feel and less steering effort would be the effects.
Click to expand...
Dr.Jeff said:
Very well described, thanks. ;)

Recently I've been driving a FWD car that was designed with a lot of negative castor (same as we are talking about) to help compensate for the natural effects of FWD steering. It is a American car (hate it already) that my parents bought. When I take my 99 Y.O. mother to doctor appoints it is the only vehicle that she can get in and out of easily, so that's what we use. I do not like it at all. It behaves exactly like Ulix described. Not only is it no fun to drive, it can even be dangerous if you aren't paying 100% attention all of the time. As it easily wants to wonder into the next lane quickly. Unfortunately there is no castor adjustment on that vehicle. :(
Click to expand...
I am not talking about a lot out of spec but slightly. maybe a degree off spec.

Also on another mater as i have been going through all the mistakes made by the last alignment. I noticed that the poly bushings I have are for the control arm and the radius rod are much softer than the OEM ones. I have oem radius rod bushings but may print some control arm bushings. There is barely 1000KM on the poly ones and already deformed and seem to have gotten softer. Not sure how hard I should make them? Anybody running really hard bushings? Or what are people running?
 
This touches on what I've been experiencing. My car "darts" on the highway, similar to what a snowmobile does. Not really noticeable on back roads. Worse when windy. I thought it was a combination of narrow wheel track vehicle weight, & road crown. Today I measured the distance from the front wheel to the fender & there's a 1/4" difference between the 2. Alignment has been done recently, but at a "chain". Would this cause my issue & if so whats the fix?
 
JKIDD said:
This touches on what I've been experiencing. My car "darts" on the highway, similar to what a snowmobile does. Not really noticeable on back roads. Worse when windy. I thought it was a combination of narrow wheel track vehicle weight, & road crown. Today I measured the distance from the front wheel to the fender & there's a 1/4" difference between the 2. Alignment has been done recently, but at a "chain". Would this cause my issue & if so whats the fix?
Click to expand...
I think the caster may cause some of this but my toe is way out also. Notice that the threads on the tie rods are almost as off as the amount of toe. 5/8. Miserable alignments at Chains. I paid a supposedly specialist in tricky alignments for modified cars. What a mistake. Also just notices in my suspension bag in i keep parts, extra shims and coil over wrenches that I am down one wrench. F#@K
 
Bobkat said:
I noticed that the poly bushings I have are for the control arm and the radius rod are much softer than the OEM ones. There is barely 1000KM on the poly ones and already deformed and seem to have gotten softer. Not sure how hard I should make them? Anybody running really hard bushings? Or what are people running?
Click to expand...
The stock lower inner front control arm bushing is made of quite firm rubber, you'd be best using OEM. The same bush is used on some Fiat light commercial vehicles and they are quite easy to source the original bushings. If you look at the design of the front end, that lower inner bush actually needs to distort a little as the suspension travels up and down, it's not a straight up pivoting motion.

SteveC
 
The simple rule is never ever use a shop to do your wheel alignment that sells tyres... if you think about it, it's in their best interest to wear the tyres out as quickly as possible so they can sell you another set!

I use a guy who only does suspension repairs and alignments - he doesn't sell tyres.

The week before a round of the state rally championship he's always booked out with rally cars, likewise the week before a meet at the local racetrack he's always booked out as most of the competitors use him...

or learn to do it yourself.

SteveC
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top