Stand-alone ECU

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by Dr.Jeff, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
  2. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    My buddy sent me a video link:

    As he says in the video, its still early on, but it runs and now it is just a matter of tuning it...
     
    MikeHynes likes this.
  3. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Cool. Any info on exactly what it is, how it installs, etc?
     
  4. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    Yes... You unplug your stock ECU and plug the adapter cable and the new ECU in... It is about as plug and play as you can get.

    I am pretty sure he is using a Nemesis ECU...
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 1:00 PM
  5. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    So I assume the advantage over the stock ECU is it is programmable/tunable? Does it utilize the stock air flow meter or base fuel tables on another method? I also assume it does not control the ignition? Thanks for the updates.
     
  6. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    So there are a couple of advantages without making any other changes to the car.. The stock ECU has a very generic tune from decades ago, which was all about engine survival versus performance, this ECU will be tuned more toward performance. The stock ECU doesn't allow you to change anything to adapt to any modifications like, intake, exhaust, larger injectors etc and this will. The idea is to give people boost in performance without having to do major changes to the engine wiring.

    If people are interested, Phil talked about a phase two which would eliminate the air flow meter, do more with timing and give you more control over what goes on with the engine. All of this depends on the level of interest.

    Sometime when Phil and I are in the same city with my X we will install the ECU on my car which is almost stock and spend an afternoon with a dyno. My plan is to document everything as we go through the process of tuning the car.

    My personal way of thinking about phase 1 is that this will behave like the ultimate carburetor since it deals with the fuel / air side of the engine management. If I make changes to the engine I can add more fuel and air to compensate for them and get the most bang for the buck.

    Right now we can only guess that there will be a noticeable improvement based on what he has seen with other cars.

    Ed
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 12:57 PM
  7. maz124s

    maz124s Daily Driver

    count me in when this goes to market
     
  8. MikeHynes

    MikeHynes True Classic

    Location:
    Goodfield, IL.
    I donated a good stock ECU to someone (don't remember who) some time ago for just such a project. So, yes, I'm interested. I think it's obvious that even with the simple and limited inputs the Jetronic system uses that it's possible to manage an engine. It would be great if you could tweek it too! The best I've been able to do is to override the water temp sensor to make the ECU think the coolant temp was lower than it actually was. That's pretty crude, but somewhat effective. Controlling the ignition isn't difficult at all, not sure how much advantage there would be to integrating the ignition timing with the A/F ratio?
     
  9. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    Phil added: "There should be a big improvement in drivability and general running since now the amount of correction tables are much larger and of high resolution. So instead of an on/off start up enrichment (like a choke) it will be very linear and very smooth from cold rich start to lean out as it warms up. Safety features such as coolant temp fuel trims will be good for track guys that run the engine very hot. I'm sure also the closed loop fuel trims that allow any targeted AFR will also boost performance and fuel economy. Even subtle things like throttle pump, tip in enrichment, and throttle delta are much more precise than "full throttle enrichment." Honestly there's so much more and we are working in ignition timing. It will be easy to add things like a knock sensor, ditch the MAF for a simple intake with an IAT sensor."
     
  10. gene cooley

    gene cooley Autocrosser

    Location:
    Henrico, Va
    I can understand wanting to use the original Fiat parts where possible and simplify the installation of the programmable bits.
    In the end though, when you lose the MAF and start making more mods to the programming you are basically talking about going to the 10 year old (with some updates) Megasquirt system that we use on the Ecotec in the 600. The main difference that I see is that you still would use some Fiat "tables" where we developed all of ours from scratch.
     
  11. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    It is really great that someone is working on this, and I applaud the effort. However I honestly think the real advantages will be best realized only if you go to your "stage two" product. Anything short of this really isn't enough benefit in my opinion to make it worth the expense to change it. There are ways to make basic mixture changes to the stock system without replacing the ECU, which is the bulk of what I'm hearing the "stage one" does. But once you allow elimination of the air flow meter, incorporate ignition timing maps in conjunction with fuel maps, utilize better input and feedback (wideband O2, air temp, throttle position, coolant temp, crank position, cam position, knock sensing, etc), and make everything fully programmable, then you can really tune the engine for more performance and better running in all conditions. Plus it will allow for unlimited upgrades to the rest of the power plant (which the stage one will be very limited in). And as was mentioned by Gene, that is basically what a MegaSquirt product is. So I'm assuming you will be able to make the new system for a lower cost than a MegaSquirt in order to be marketable against it. I'm looking forward to what you guys develop and encourage you to go for a full monty product rather than a compromised solution. ;)
     
  12. ecohen2

    ecohen2 True Classic

    Location:
    Arlington Va
    I can't take any credit for the work, it is all Phil and his team doing the R&D. All I did was encourage him to try it with a X1/9 donated by a local member.

    As with anything we can speculate forever on what the results will be. For me it will be the pre and post dyno runs on my car. I do have a bunch of personal experiences with Phil and his company that makes me think this will be worthwhile.

    Ed
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 9:26 PM
    gene cooley and Dr.Jeff like this.
  13. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I am glad you will do some dyno testing, really the best way to get objective data. Great project. Hope my comments were viewed as supportive, to encourage him to further develop the next level of ECU. ;)
     
  14. maz124s

    maz124s Daily Driver

    From another point of view, this Stage 1 kit really appeals to me as i want to keep my car in pretty much stock form, but adding little mods like cams, i will have the ability to tune and tweak settings if needed which you dont have with original ecu and with plug in play harness is so appealing

    Cant wait for this to be available
     
  15. carl

    carl True Classic

    Location:
    Virginia
    Ed, don't forget the 124 guys have basically the same injection system so there is another source of customers for Phil.
     
  16. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    That's a good point. With a ECU that allows for programming, the same unit can be utilized on multiple engines. I'm sure Phil is looking at all sorts of other vehicles it can be used for also (much like a MegaSquirt is universal)?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice